Citizenship presence requirement

Hey guys

So I got a bit of time in the lockdown to calculate my citizenship application date.
After reading a few threads I got a bit confused. In my understanding you got to spend 1350 days, 240 each year from the time you were granted residency. I was hoping to be able to apply after the 4years 8 months mark but not so sure now. In my first year I spent 50 days overseas. Every other year I spent 14-16 maximum. Does this mean I can't apply after 4 years 8 months? I was granted residency in 22nd March 2016 so my plan was to apply for citizenship in November 2020.

Hope you're all going good in this lockdown

This is how to calculate things:

1. Determine the five year periods immediately preceding the date on which you plan to apply.
   
   • By means of example, if you plan to submit your application for citizenship on 25th November 2020, the preceding five year periods would be:
     
     • 25th November 2019 - 24th November 2020
     • 25th November 2018 - 24th November 2019
     • 25th November 2017 - 24th November 2018
     • 25th November 2016 - 24th November 2017
     • 25th November 2015 - 24th November 2016
2. For each of those five year periods, determine how many days you have spent in New Zealand with residence. If any five year period comes to less than 240 days, you will not meet the presence requirement on the date on which you plan to apply.
3. Add the days for each five year period, to get a total for the entire five years. If this total comes to less than 1350 days, you will not meet the presence requirement on the date on which you plan to apply.
4. If all individual five year periods come to 240 days or greater, and the total for all of the five year periods comes to 1350 days or greater, you meet the presence requirement on the date on which you plan to apply.

To do this accurately, you have to know your exact arrival and departure dates for each period of absence (you can count the day of departure or arrival itself as a day spent in New Zealand). INZ holds the records of your border movements, and the Department of Internal Affairs will query these records when they process your application. You can request INZ to release these records to you here -- just don't expect a response before the COVID-19 lockdown ends. You'll almost certainly want to get these records from INZ if there's possible ambiguity as per the date recorded itself: for example, my usual entry into New Zealand is QF163 from Sydney, which gets into Wellington at around midnight (and thus, it can be a bit uncertain as to which date INZ considers me entering the country!).

The "4 years 8 months" thing comes about because someone who never travels outside of New Zealand will meet the presence requirement after exactly 4 years and 8 months!

But there is a question on citizenship form " have you lived in NZ on resident status for five years or more??"
What to do with this question?? If somone says yes but he/she has only lived 4y 8months...then basically its kind of a lie....so what are the consequences?? Does it come under fraud?? Or you would just be declined and re apply after another 4 months??

This is nothing official, but thinking about that last question just from the point of view of understanding the English... If somebody said to me, 'Where do you live?' I'd tell them the town where my home is, although I might at that time be in somewhere else on holiday, or staying temporarily in a hotel while working. So I would think that if your home has been in NZ since the date five years before you apply, and your trips out of the country have just been temporary stays, you could honestly answer 'yes'.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kelerei

This is how to calculate things:

1. Determine the five year periods immediately preceding the date on which you plan to apply.
   
   • By means of example, if you plan to submit your application for citizenship on 25th November 2020, the preceding five year periods would be:
     
     • 25th November 2019 - 24th November 2020
     • 25th November 2018 - 24th November 2019
     • 25th November 2017 - 24th November 2018
     • 25th November 2016 - 24th November 2017
     • 25th November 2015 - 24th November 2016
2. For each of those five year periods, determine how many days you have spent in New Zealand with residence. If any five year period comes to less than 240 days, you will not meet the presence requirement on the date on which you plan to apply.
3. Add the days for each five year period, to get a total for the entire five years. If this total comes to less than 1350 days, you will not meet the presence requirement on the date on which you plan to apply.
4. If all individual five year periods come to 240 days or greater, and the total for all of the five year periods comes to 1350 days or greater, you meet the presence requirement on the date on which you plan to apply.

To do this accurately, you have to know your exact arrival and departure dates for each period of absence (you can count the day of departure or arrival itself as a day spent in New Zealand). INZ holds the records of your border movements, and the Department of Internal Affairs will query these records when they process your application. You can request INZ to release these records to you here -- just don't expect a response before the COVID-19 lockdown ends. You'll almost certainly want to get these records from INZ if there's possible ambiguity as per the date recorded itself: for example, my usual entry into New Zealand is QF163 from Sydney, which gets into Wellington at around midnight (and thus, it can be a bit uncertain as to which date INZ considers me entering the country!).

The "4 years 8 months" thing comes about because someone who never travels outside of New Zealand will meet the presence requirement after exactly 4 years and 8 months!

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Thank you that makes a bit more sense.

So following your maths, if I received residency on 22-3-2016 and originally I wanted to apply on the 17-11-2020 that would not work because I spent 14 days overseas within that period. To complete the 240 days then I need to apply on 1-12-2020? Provided I hadn't left the country between now and that date(which I doubt I will, seeing current state of the world)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aron

So following your maths, if I received residency on 22-3-2016 and originally I wanted to apply on the 17-11-2020 that would not work because I spent 14 days overseas within that period. To complete the 240 days then I need to apply on 1-12-2020? Provided I hadn't left the country between now and that date(which I doubt I will, seeing current state of the world)

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Let's see:

• If you apply on 2020-11-17, one of the five one year periods you must look at is 2015-11-17 to 2016-11-16.
• Anything before 2016-03-22 gets discarded as you didn't have residency yet, and it's exactly 240 days between 2016-03-22 and 2016-11-16.
• Now, if you spent 14 days outside New Zealand between 2016-03-22 and 2016-11-16, that drops it to 226 days.
• 226 is less than 240, so you fail the presence requirement for the first one-year period. This means that you fail the entire presence requirement, and there's no point in calculating time spent in New Zealand for the remaining four one-year periods.

Now, let's re-do this, but applying on 2020-12-01 instead:

• The first of the five one-year periods is now between 2015-12-01 and 2016-11-30.
• Again, anything before 2016-03-22 is discarded, so it's now 254 days of residence in that period before taking time spent outside of the country into account.
• Assuming that you've still spent 14 days outside of New Zealand between 2016-03-22 and 2016-11-30, then once we've deducted that, it's now exactly 240 days.
• The first of the five one-year periods is therefore OK. This process must now be repeated with the remaining four one-year periods.

Like I said before, you need to know your exact travel history to get an accurate answer.

Thank you that's what I thought. The rest of the years should all be fine as I only spent a couple weeks overseas around Xmas. Thanks very much!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kelerei

The "4 years 8 months" thing comes about because someone who never travels outside of New Zealand will meet the presence requirement after exactly 4 years and 8 months!

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Are you sure you got your maths right?

I think the 240 days in the 5th year comes from the strict interpretation of the law here

"The requirements referred to in subsection (1)(d) are as follows:
(a)
that the applicant is entitled in terms of the Immigration Act 2009 to be in New Zealand indefinitely:
(b)
that the applicant was present in New Zealand—
(i)
for a minimum of 1 350 days during the 5 years immediately preceding the date of the application; and
(ii)
for at least 240 days in each of those 5 years,—"

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/p...est/whole.html

You may still be able to apply on the 240th day of the 5th year but better confirm that with the authorities and please let us know if you do.

To make it very simple...as per my understanding..If you don't travel during first 8 months after your first entry to NZ...you can apply citizenship after 4 years 8 M.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by manutd

To make it very simple...as per my understanding..If you don't travel during first 8 months after your first entry to NZ...you can apply citizenship after 4 years 8 M.

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It is not about whether you travel in the beggining or at the end but more to do with when you decide to apply. And at the date of that application looking back at a five year period (not withstanding any other condition), you have been present for 1350 days in total AND in each of those years you have been present for at least 240 days. it is that simple. Notice that the law is not stipulating absences but presence as the condition. It is that term "at least 240 days " that could make someone eligible by only serving 240 days in the 5th year in my view.

as the calculation is done backwards...not leaving NZ in first 8 months make your 240 days in that year..remaining 4 months are being counted before your entry....so yes you can apply after 4Y 8M, 4Y 9M or whatever time makes your 240 days counting backwards from the date of your application....

so to make it apply exactly after 4y 8 M...you should not travel outside NZ in the first 8 months..

Ok so I talked to one of my friend yesterday who applied last year. He went overseas for holidays for about 2 month in his first year straight after he was granted residency visa. He has told me in this case you can apply after 4 years and 10 months instead of 4 years and 8 months. He did mention if you don’t go for holidays in first year and 5th year then u can apply in 4 years and 8 months if you do go for holidays in the first and last year then you have to add those days in the 5th year. Correct me if I am wrong thanks

If you're in any doubt about when you can apply, you can contact the government https://www.govt.nz/browse/passports...z-citizenship/, and they will check your exact situation. (I doubt they're working on such things right now, however.)

If you did not travel in your first year of gaining residency and do not intend to travel in your fifth year then you may be eligible to apply once you have met the 240 days in that year

So would it be:

Year 1: finished after 8 months in the country as resident

Year 2: 12 months of which at least 8 in the country

Same for year 3 and 4

Year 5: apply after 8 months in the country

Ie shortest possible is 4 years and 4 months - provided that you meet the 1350 days total requirement?

Never mind clearly my thinking was off last night!

Travelling in first year of residency adds time to the final year of residency requirements before you become eligible to apply for citizenship. I know that because I fell into that category where I went for 1 month holiday in first year and it added a month for me in the final year i.e. It made it 4 years and 9 months

Travelling the first year won't change the date you'll apply for citizenship if you'll live in the country for at least 240 days. Anyway to reach the 1350 days you have to live in the country for an average of 270 days at year, so if you don't leave too much the country you can apply after 4 years and 240 days if you won't go abroad during last year.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by everest

I think the 240 days in the 5th year comes from the strict interpretation of the law here

"The requirements referred to in subsection (1)(d) are as follows:
(a)
that the applicant is entitled in terms of the Immigration Act 2009 to be in New Zealand indefinitely:
(b)
that the applicant was present in New Zealand—
(i)
for a minimum of 1 350 days during the 5 years immediately preceding the date of the application; and
(ii)
for at least 240 days in each of those 5 years,—"

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/p...est/whole.html

You may still be able to apply on the 240th day of the 5th year but better confirm that with the authorities and please let us know if you do.

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Interesting reading through this and I find using the legislation above easier than how it is described elsewhere.

Also, my interpretation is that I can potentially apply after being in New Zealand as a resident after 4 years, 4 months and 6 days. This is because my resident visa was granted offshore on the 9th March 2020 thereby satisfying (a). I'm going to enter New Zealand on the 3rd July 2020 (nearly 4 months and not travel for atleast a year after) and not travel in my 5th year therefore satisfying (b).

I'd be grateful if anyone here could tell me if I'm wrong, all I can think of is that I may not satisfy (a) as I haven't been granted entry permission yet with my resident visa. Seems like a quirk as my 2 years until PR will only count from my first entry as a resident.

Something else interesting is that I am in Australia where residency only requires 4 years with similar presence requirements but they can be on any visa as long as at least one year is while on a residency visa.

I THINK the following is correct... You will only be a resident when you present your passport with your residence visa and it is scanned into the INZ computer at the immigration desk at the airport of entry to NZ when you arrive. So you have to count your time in NZ from that point.

The requirements for Australia (or for any other country) are completely irrelevant - it's a different country and its laws are different on many matters.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hab

Interesting reading through this and I find using the legislation above easier than how it is described elsewhere.

Also, my interpretation is that I can potentially apply after being in New Zealand as a resident after 4 years, 4 months and 6 days. This is because my resident visa was granted offshore on the 9th March 2020 thereby satisfying (a). I'm going to enter New Zealand on the 3rd July 2020 (nearly 4 months and not travel for atleast a year after) and not travel in my 5th year therefore satisfying (b).

I'd be grateful if anyone here could tell me if I'm wrong, all I can think of is that I may not satisfy (a) as I haven't been granted entry permission yet with my resident visa. Seems like a quirk as my 2 years until PR will only count from my first entry as a resident.

Something else interesting is that I am in Australia where residency only requires 4 years with similar presence requirements but they can be on any visa as long as at least one year is while on a residency visa.

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You asked, so here's the maths to prove you wrong. :) Let's make the following assumptions: you plan to apply for citizenship 4 years, 4 months and 6 days from your date of entry (July 3rd 2020), and there's no travel outside of New Zealand.

That makes an application date of November 9th, 2024 -- which I'll bump to November 11th due to the 9th falling on a weekend.

Therefore, for the purposes of the presence requirement, the Department of Internal Affairs would look at these time periods:

1. 2019-11-11 to 2020-11-10
2. 2020-11-11 to 2021-11-10
3. 2021-11-11 to 2022-11-10
4. 2022-11-11 to 2023-11-10
5. 2023-11-11 to 2024-11-10

Periods 2 to 4, once again assuming no international travel, would be 365 days each, and period 5 would be 366 days due to including February 29th in it.

Period 1, however, is the problem. Note that the legal requirement (Section 8(2)(b) of the Citizenship Act 1977) is that you be present in New Zealand with the entitlement to remain indefinitely, so anything before your first entry date (3rd July 2020) cannot be considered, notwithstanding the fact that you were entitled to remain indefinitely since 9th March 2020: you weren't physically present in New Zealand at that time. The period of 2020-07-03 to 2020-11-10 comes to 131 days, well short of the legal requirement of 240 days. You would therefore fail the presence requirement.

As per the citizenship guidance document, to clearly meet the standard requirement for presence, you must have been been physically in New Zealand, for a minimum of 1,350 days in the five years preceding the citizenship application, and for at least 240 days in each of those five years; and have held New Zealand residence through Immigration New Zealand for that whole period (which is simply another way of explaining Section 8(2)(b) of the Citizenship Act). Also, the Department of Internal Affairs states that the date that presence is calculated from is the date that a completed application form is received by the Department, together with the required fee. That's why you have to work backwards from your planned application date, and why you can't count days before your first entry on your Resident Visa.

Thanks JandM and thank you for the comprehensive explanation Kelerei, I am grateful you've taken the time to prove me wrong :)

My current passport expires mid-November 2024 so I'll need to renew that passport to keep my PR valid while my citizenship application is assessed but that is bureaucracy!

My comment on the Australian citizenship requirements is that there is quite a difference and I've heard rumours New Zealand's requirements have been influenced by Australia due to the Trans-Tasman Travel Agreement, in the same way that their PRs can come to NZ as NZ residents on arrival whereas only NZ citizens get the "special category" visa. They're worried NZ will be used to bypass their immigration system into their higher wage economy (despite NZ being a far superior place to live in my opinion).