Ireland to New Zealand, good move?

[SharpBlade]

Hi there,

I dropped my first message last October in this forum and here I am again albeit a step closer to New Zealand and getting more concerned about what we could actually achieve by moving there.

I read in an article published in The Press last Friday that New Zealand does not fare very well as far as the real average gross domestic product is concerned (OECD report) and that New Zealanders can not afford to have a lot of savings.
This looks a bit daunting for me and my family (2 adults and 4 children under 6 years of age) who are currenly thinking of moving from Ireland to New Zealand.
My qualifications are now being assessed by NZQA (just to show we are serious about our future move). As soon as NZQA sends back its assessment (good I hope...), I am submitting my EOI and will then try to organize a one week trip to Christchurch for interviews and to get a feel of the place. As a senior software developer, it seems I can get a gross salary of around 60,000$/month but is this enough to support the whole family especially when you do not get any child benefit like here in Ireland and when income taxes are higher than in Ireland? I am really starting to think this would not be a smart move. New Zealand would definitely provide a better outdoor life (we live in the west of Ireland and the weather is really too poor for regular outdoor activities: in Christchurch we would get half the rainfall and twice the sun we get here) but would we be able to afford it? Any Irish out there who took the plunge and who could give us some feedback? Is it possible to live in the country and to commute to Chrischurch in a reasonable delay? In view of the low unemployment rate, I suppose salaries are set to rise?

[debnjohn]

Hello SharpBlade,
I'm in no way qualified to answer your questions, but you've raised a couple of points that I've read about here and elsewhere, so here goes (in no particular order):

Hoping for guaranteed wage rises in light of low unemployment might be a bit futile, see this article from the forum's parent site -> http://www.enz.org/new-zealand-wages.html

A recent poll in The Economist rated Ireland as number 1 in a 'quality of life' index, which had as its' main factor income, with other important contributors being health, freedom, unemployment, family life, climate, political stability & security, gender equality, and family and comunity life. By comparison, New Zealand 'only' ranked 15th, so you already seem to be sitting pretty. As for myself, Britain ranked 29th (after all other pre-enlargement EEC nations), so I'm quite keen to move :mrgreen:

From what I've read here on these forums, it is quite possible to 'live in the country and commute to Christchurch'. I don't think there's many places in NZ that are very far from the country ... just how rural do you want to be ?

But as you said, Ireland does have a poor climate.
How important is climate to you?
How important is a high GDP per head in your country of residence?

Even if you get some ex-Irish feedback to your question, the only people qualified to answer whether you can cope with a drop in income is you, and your family. Your idea of a trip to Christchurch is excellent, and probably the very least you can do before committing to such a huge venture.

Best of luck,
John.

[veronica]

As you're in IT can you live in NZ and work for the same people you do now and get paid in punts. That would work well.

[Soon2baKiwi]

John, I know the Economist is a well respected magazine but could you not hear the laughter from here when that report came out? People are dying on trolleys here every day of the week because they can't get a bed in a hospital. And that's just the health issue. Tens of thousands, myself and my hubby included, travel 100 miles round trip every day to work because we can't afford to buy a house closer to Dublin. We have no life, never mind a quality one I've spoken to Sharpblade about this before and we're both of the same mind. I'd love to have some of what the surveyors were on when they compiled those results.

Veronica, we're in the Eurozone. No more punts unfortuantely - only lots and lots of Euro that buy you less and less every week : .

[Timbo]

An interesting point Veronica. If one were to do as you suggest, how would you go about acheiving PR?
Surely, if you are still working for your existing employer, you are of no real benefit to NZ in the eyes of NZIS. Unless your partner could act as principal of course.
Has anyone out there managed to get pr on the back of a similar scenario? :?

[MB]

Here's my long, Sunday-afternoon-at-the-computer post from a place that is neither Ireland nor NZ, I'm afraid : :

Quality-of-life and best-places surveys can be particularly interesting if you stay in one place throughout different surveys or different 'editions' of the same survey, so you can see how changing survey outcomes over time compare with your own experience while living there.

We've been in this position re. what is perhaps the archetypal "places survey" place: Seattle. Our wrinkle is that we have been in more or less the same very, very median-paying roles for almost a decade, a constant through all the Seattle big money years and -- later -- dotcom-crash worries. And we're v.grateful for the job stability even though a number of our friends and contemporaries have earned a lot of money.

Thing is, some of these surveys at times seem to be geared towards folk who can earn enough to relocate several times and 'plug in' to new cities/countries and maintain their lifestyle almost without a blip. Fine.

But what often gets lost is this: if you are a person/family who can find somewhere that just feels right, you can often find a moderate-income niche and a realistic home (e.g., a townhouse in a nice place) and so somewhat insulate yourself from the kind of fluctuations and factors that often hit the headlines.

(Example: we have been in and around Seattle through the run up to, and duration of , the big dotcom zenith, then through the other side. But much as news stories have started to comment on Seattle getting notched down a few pegs, the experience of living here for regular folks has, if anything, got a little easier since things have quietened down. Hospitals, universities, Boeing, Microsoft, libraries, coffee shops, dance schools, offices still need ordinary workers. And if you're determined, and prepared to live outside of the city itself you can still probably find a modest and affordable place to live that still gives you access to all the benefits of this area.)

Sparkling survey results or not: maybe finding a place that one has an urge to give back to, or look after, is a sign that one has found a great place to live.

Cheers,
Matt.

[SharpBlade]

Thanks all for your inputs. I am not used to forums and I find this so great to get in touch with people from different countries and with different backgrounds and, to get their feelings. It may look like money is an important factor in our willingness to relocate but it is not as effectively wages are pretty good here in Ireland. As outlined by Soon2baKiwi, there are negative sides to Irish life that are not compensated by a good wage: most of the jobs are in Dublin which means long commuting times and less time with your family, th health system is in shambles, proper amenities for children are rare (swimming pools, stadium, physical education in primary schools does not exist as such), the public transport system is limited, the climate is poor,... We live in the country and I know that if I loose my job tomorrow, it will be very difficult to get another one in the same area as most of the IT jobs are in the 3 Irish big cities: Dublin, Cork and Galway. One of the big ideas behind our possible move to Christchurch would be the assurance to find a pool of IT companies. On top of that, we would get good facilities for the kids, a health system better than here, a good level of cultural activities, a reasonable commute time and a better climate. All of this can compensate a drop in income as long as this income allows us to live in the simple way we have lived so far: we are not into gadgets, into consumerism,... we just would like to have a balanced family life and be able to raise and educate our children properly.

[leslie]

who knows who creates these surveys. am thinking the immensely gifted dubya designed this one during his post-grad business degree at yale?

i see emmigrating in a very simple way (not just because my brain is mush). everywhere i look there are families who are completely spread out across the globe and rarely see each other at best. i love my kids (even the annoying 14 yr old girl) and when they are older and i am OLD want them to want to be nearby - and not out of obligation. of all the places i have lived/ worked/ travelled nz is the only one i feel sure they would return to. somehow there is nothing like it. and it has everything you need even if it is a bit short on some of the wants.

[RoadRunner]

Leslie,
Great perspective!
RoadRunner