Digital SLR camera

[Steadybears]

I am wanting to get myself a Digital SLR camera - will be having some photography lessons- not sure what would be a 'must have' regarding make- what lense to start with etc - what megapixel would be best. So many on the market and have no idea where to start.

Thanks for any advise.

[Flutterby]

well i would recommend getting either a nikon or a pentax if you are working on a budget because you can get old lenses to fit, most other makes have changed their lens fitting so you can only buy the newer lenses for them.

[Chiba]

Question: do you wear glasses?

[Duncan74]

Oh dear, I see this one running. First off, I do a bit of sports photography, and so have a couple of SLRs for that, and I'm on the Canon system. So that's my colour nailed to the mast.

My views, although for each of these you'll get the opposite from someone else in most cases, although the first few are less contentious.

1) Lenses are the expensive bits, and will move from body to body, so it's best to start with the company that has the lenses you need at the price you need, then choose the body to fit. Eg, my two main lenses cost over £2000. My two bodies would have cost £1400 new, athough I bought one of them second hand for £200. I can't actally tell which is which unless I was to check the serial number.
2) Megapixels are a 'fake' feature nowadays. I've done prints up to A2 with no pixelation from a 6MP camera. In reality it's the quality of the sensor that counts, especially at low light / high ISO and for a given price then the more pixels they cram onto a sensor the harder it is to make the image quality free.
3) You've got to be comfortable with the camera. In my case I moved up a model to get a body that was big enough for my hands. Other people I know have done the opposite.
4) Beware of taking the advice of some websites. www.dpreview.com and the forums are useful in some ways, but then consider what type of photography you do. If it's not taking 100 shots a week of a test chart and analysing at at 100% to find colour shift then it's not the same as most of the 'vocal' people on there Seriously, there's a time to step back and just go out and take a photo.


Getting to opinions now.
5) Perception is that Nikkon is a bit better on multi flash comminication than Canon. Canon on the other hand has a slight advantage on some lenses that are good for sports. My view is that both of these can be addressed with both systems.
6) There's a bit of a fuss about image stabilisation. In short lenses you don't really need it. In long lenses with long aperatures you do. But for any 'action' shots then the motion blur of hte subject is the critical thing anyway, so don't let people oversell this feature. Handy yes, but in most situations not needed.
7) Don't forget to factor in a good bag for all your stuff and buy one twice the size you need on day 1. I have a Crumpler messenger bag for 'round town' and then a Lowe Alpine rucksack for out in the wilds.

Very subjective now.
8) If I were to restart from scratch then I'd consider Canon, Nikkon and Sony. I've seen some great pictures from other cameras too, but the availability of the lenses, release cords, flashes, etc means that I'd look at those three brands. I also know what I'd buy today.
9) Seriously consider second hand and getting a 2007/8 body second hand to start with. You will save a fortune, and that will let you buy better quality lenses that will make a difference to the end product.


There can be 'photo taking' tips later if you want

[ourquest]

well i would recommend getting either a nikon or a pentax if you are working on a budget because you can get old lenses to fit, most other makes have changed their lens fitting so you can only buy the newer lenses for them.

This is only partly true, and might represent false economy.
The main practical use of being able to fit older lenses to digital bodies is if you have an existing collection of specialist lenses like large aperture telephotos, shift lenses or similar.
Even then, many of the automated features of the camera body cannot be used and as you are only starting your photography now you will find this frustrating and it will be detrimental to the quality of the images you take.
And just to note that it is the images that always matter, and not the camera.
Most entry level lenses for DSLR's are ENTIRELY sufficient for most people's needs, and are relatively affordable. In fact, older Nikkor (Nikon) lenses are often more pricey due to collector value. Not the case with Pentax though, where there of heaps of older lenses available, but nearly all of them are basic spec lenses because almost all professional photographers have traditionally used Nikon and Canon bodies (at least in 35mm photography) and so that's where you'll find good specialist older lenses.
My own recommendation would be to stick with Canon or Nikon, but the differences between them are largely academic and/or only relevant to you once you are an experienced/specialised photographer.
I wouldn't recommend trying to buy as camera "that will last you for a long time" only because you won't know what's important to you until you have experience. So buy a good entry level DSLR with the expected Manual/Automatic/Program capabilities and with a basic lens package and take it from there.
Hope this opinion helps.

[Chiba]

The reason I ask about glasses is that I'm a glasses wearer, and a long-time Canon user from before I knew better. If you wear glasses, Canon isn't your best option; choose Nikon.

If you do want to "get into" photography, I'd recommend buying a camera body and a fixed focal length lens that's relatively "normal", meaning it will capture pretty much what your eye does. Ignore the cheap kit zoom lenses - with few exceptions they tend to be crap. Start out simple - it's a great way to learn. Your teacher will have their own curriculum though - ask them what lens they think you should start with.

[Steadybears]

Thanks everyone for all the information - I have noted what you have all recommended and will now be on the look out for a bargain. I have seen a few on Trademe - I do worry about spending a lot of money on 2nd hand - am I being stupid to think like that? All the jargon that they advertise is very confusing - but once I see something I might ask for further advise - if you don't mind.

Thanks again

[petri]

This topic could last forever ;-)

Just for the background, I've got a Canon but when I decided to upgrade to a full-frame, I looked both at Canon and Nikon because I needed a few new lenses as well. I moved to 5DmkII about a year ago, bought it in NZ because it was cheap there (and 1 NZD was just 0.40 €).

Canon works quite fine with glasses. I would probably visit a local camera store and try Canon, Nikon and Sony in the hand and see if there's something you don't like about them. DSLR's are bigger and heavier than point-and-shoots and you need to be comfortable with it.

All the current models are good enough for ordinary users. Just don't start building a big collection of lenses before you know what brand you'll be in. That's where the money goes, not in the camera body.

The entry level kit lenses aren't high quality but they'll do the job in learning. Many stores offer body + mid-level lens combos as well. A prime lens like Canon's 50/1.8 or 50/1.4 is good to have, they aren't expensive and you'll get some experience with fast aperture even if the other lenses aren't that fast.

You'll also need time to decide what type of photography you'll be doing the most. Taking photos inside at parties, holiday landscapes, zooming into wild life -- all are different and not everyone does everything. On our trips to Antarctica and Africa the requirements were quite different from travelling in Hong Kong or NZ.

Going for used body and/or lens is ok if you can inspect the camera before buying, there's no odd noises and they don't look like dropped or damaged. Ordinary wear is fine, that's what they are made for. The build quality increases quite rapidly with the price and there's a business model built into the entry models and kit-lenses -- to get people upgrade.

In my previous start-up we used a lot of freelancer photographers, millions of photos. There's absolutely no connection between the equipment and the results. It's all about the person taking the photo, good equipment just helps the process. Some photographers take their equipment like a religion, and some play with the gear more than take photos ;-)

Also remember to keep the photos organized and invest some time and effort in post-processing. Apple's Aperture (soon to be upgraded) and Adobe's Lightroom are worth checking out. They have a bit different workflow so try both if you can. Below is an example how post-processing the RAW image can save the image if you've forgot last night's manual settings to the camera the next day..

Last but not least, there's no better place to learn photography than New Zealand. Such a photogenic country.

[Flutterby]

well its my opinion that if you are looking to buy an SLR you must be hoping to use its variety of features, so with that in mind learning to use it in manual is very important to understanding how it works and how to make great photos, which is why i think using a lens which doesn't work in auto is not a bad thing, once i learned how to use the features in manual i wasn't interested in using Auto anyway!
Nikon would have been my choice, though i started out with Canon, but my trusty Pentax has proved itself worth every penny!

Also worth noting that i wear glasses and have used all three makes without any issues.

[Kiwi Mac]

Speaking as a professional photographer....

Almost anything will do. Whatever body you buy will be a paperweight in 3 years time anyway - so as others have said, the glass is what matters. My most expensive lens was NZ$11,000 so as you can imagine, I won't be swapping systems any time soon! I doubt you'll have that concern, so just go to the dealer and pick up several and go with what feels right.

Personally I use Nikon D3's and D2's. However, Nikon is about 25% more expensive in NZ than Canon.

If I was not actually doing it for work, I'd be shooting film, probably on a Leica M series and a Mamiya 7.

The best dealer near you is Progear in Auckland. They know what they are talking about, Graham has good honest pricing and there's no BS from spotty sales staff just out of nappies...