Debt before you moved to NZ

[Duncan74]

Cryptic,

Don't worry about it fella / girl. Let me know your details, once my house is sold and I've settled all my accounts over her ein a few weeks then I'll sort out your accounts too. Can't say fairier than that can I. And it will be a joy knowing that at least you'll not be able to carry on posting this clap trap in an attempt to deliberately stress out the predominently middle class moderately liberal with a little 'l'. And that way you should be able to get running up those debts again much quicker.

[Kanga]

I'm not sure about the morality- that's really your call, but I'm concerned about you stating you'll never want to go back to the US. Things change, more often than people anticipate so don't burn your bridges unless you really feel you've no alternative.

[victoria24]

I'm not sure money and morals mix but here's a thought from a wise man:

The difference between a moral man and a man of honor is that the latter regrets a discreditable act, even when it has worked and he has not been caught.
H. L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)

[Jolie]

I used to be of the opinion pay what you owe-not any more. Why flog yourself silly on lifes treadmill when everyone else, it seems, is getting everything for nothing. My father (79) says grab what you can and he's old school.

Do you know what the problem with that philosophy is?
They're getting something, alright, but it's not "for nothing" in exchange.

When someone runs up a huge credit card debt with a bank and then skips out on it, the bank doesn't take that loss out of their profits.

That loss instead gets transferred to all of the bank's other customers, through increases in fees and higher percentage rates.

So someone who ditches a huge debt by moving overseas isn't stealing from the big, rich, faceless bank. They are stealing from decent, honourable, responsible people who actually pay their obligations.


I have to ask the Original Poster: If you ran up huge debts and were unable to pay your bills in the US, where the cost of most things is similar or less to NZ but salaries are 30-40% higher than NZ, then how in the world are you going to manage in NZ without doing the same???

[victoria24]

jolie is kind of correct excepting the action is not retrospective. When a financial institution launches a product, they use modelling and scorecards to attract the most of a type of people they would want to use that product. They factor in a delinquency rate as an acceptable loss and it's not personal, we are all just numbers on a spreadsheet.
If everyone paid up on time ( bear in mind companies dont want you to settle as you no longer provide revenue) then would the rates be lower or would the banks not pass it on and make more profit?

its all part of the game i'm afraid

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/p...IMF-warns.html

[Jolie]

They factor in a delinquency rate as an acceptable loss

Actually, they calculate an estimated delinquency rate based on the characteristics of their target market, and set rates and fees based on that estimate and the level of profit margin they want to achieve. If more people default on their debts than expected, then they raise the fees and rates to keep the profit margin where they want it to be.

Either way, the honest people still end up paying more than they would have otherwise.

[victoria24]

Either way, the honest people still end up paying more than they would have otherwise.

that was my point really, it will always be the way. im not excusing anything as per my previous posts. contents insurance is higher due to fraudulent claims etc. it wont change because we are capitalists. i'd like it to but it wont.

[cryptic]

Hiya,
In reply to your reply I'm a little fuzzy on what angle you're coming from.No offence meant.The confusion is my end.Come back.

[ColeyNZ]

The world has become a much smaller place with all its technology so I think there is a high probability that your debts will find you.

Just my thoughts.

That is actually not true.

Debts are based upon Contract Law, in the US every state is relegated to the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC). The UCC is then further divided by the state you are resident of because each Article is has to ratified indepently. Furthermore, dependent on the type of debt you may have can indicate the type of collection possible. I'm not 100% sure of this, but for any unsecured debt, collection is based upon residency. If you are a resident of an area that does not participate in the UCC, the means of collection are naught.

With that said, this only applies to Unsecured Debt and when you move to NZ, even with PR, you are still not technically a resident; you will remain a resident of your home country until you are Naturalised into your new home country. The only loophole to this rule is if seek and receive asylum. As part of the Geneva Convention, debt release is mandatory because it prevents the parent country from reclaiming the Asylum seeker based upon ursury.

Debt reporting may carry from country to country though if the company itself is internationally based with an internal customer managment system. But it would not apply elsewhere. Part of the immigration process is the differences in debt management. You can provide credit references to your new home country but from what I have seen it can be a clean slate.

If you're debts are secured and you default, a judgement may be held against you. Judgements do not fall under the UCC; instead they are ruled under International Extradition treaties. But even in this situation, you still must be removed from the new country back to the home country for ruling. Again, the Geneva Convention states that no country may violate the soveriegnty of another. This is the reason why there is such an outrage over Guantamo Bay in Cuba.

Chances are if you default in one country, it will not follow you. The only penalty will be if you return to the country with the defaults. Keep in mind that if you default on too much debt and then leave, you can be charged with Fraud & Theft by Deception.

P.S.

This should not considered legal advice nor should it be considered to be 100% accurate so do your own research. I merely hope to point you in the right direction.

Dan