Another child dog-attack victim

[Tia Maria]

I think it is more a question of control of the child, not merely bringing it up not approach unknown dogs.

The parents should have had eyes on the child at all times because THEY should have been aware of the dog.

I agree if the child had been a pre-schooler but the child was 8 years old and they have a greater deal of autonomy, no one would expect an 8 year old to be in sight of an adult at all times.

I think you could argue the same if they'd kept a gun in the garage in a box that wasn't locked. Although a certain amount of precautions had been taken it would still be considered accessible.

If you have something dangerous you need to go that extra mile to protect your guests and family, if you're not prepared to do that then you shouldn't own anything dangerous. In this particular incident they had already been told to be extra careful.

I have been to many people's houses who own dogs and they are so on to it when talking to the children about their dogs or keeping the dogs and children fully apart ie children not allowed in the garden and the back door is locked.

I'm use to being told don't let the children go out there that's where the dog is, or the cat is asleep in that room can you ask them not to go in there or I have my very valuable collection of glass Kiwis in there - no kids allowed.

And in the same respect we go to houses where the kids are free to wander around or play in the garden, without the expectation that I would be holding their hands - I think the 9 year old would be mortified if I held his hand.

I just think if you have a an aggressive dog, gun, python, crocodile in your swimming pool then it shouldn't be easy for someone, child or adult, to access them.

Still can't get over the name Woody - I read that as meaning something entirely different first time round!

Cheers

Tia

[Alan]

Sorry, and I know it's isn't the dog as such fault, but I honestly believe this a breed that should be banned, just not worth the risk

[Kanga]

I agree Tia- the onus is on the owner of the aggressive (and therefore probably poorly trained and looked after) dog, not the parents of the 8 year old. However, we're not really given much information in the article but if pushed I'd say that even if that boy was told not to go to the dog I still think the dog owners are at fault. They raised a dog poorly, they were warned by the council and they still kept an aggressive dog on a chain on their property somewhere where kids could easily get to when they had young kids round. FAIL, as my teenage brother would say.

[James 1077]

The parents are responsible for this event, not the dog owner!

The dog was clearly restrained and under control confined in a garage.

Parents have a duty to control their children in order to prevent them from coming to harm in potentially dangerous situations. Sadly an aspect of parenting honoured more in the breach than the observance in many cases these days.

Couldn't agree more!

The dog was restrained and away from other people. The child went to the dog and was attacked.

The owners obviously knew that the dog had the potential to be agressive towards strangers which is why it was restrained away from everyone.

It was up to the parents to stop the child from going to the dog!

[Kanga]

Assuming the parents even knew about the dog. Assuming the child hadn't been told. Assuming parents should keep all children within eye sight. Assuming that it's OK to keep an aggressive dog once the council have warned the owners because of its aggression.

[James 1077]

Sorry, and I know it's isn't the dog as such fault, but I honestly believe this a breed that should be banned, just not worth the risk

Pit bulls can be lovely dogs. Our neighbours have got a pit bull cross that is beautiful and very gentle. And when I lived in Oz my flatmate had a pit bull that was gorgeous.

The problem isn't directly the breed but the way they are brought up. Pit bulls need to have human and dog socialisation from young for the whole of their life (like British bull dogs). They can't be left alone for more than a few minutes at a time for most of their lives or they become agressive; and once agressive it is very difficult to train that out of them.

Very few people have the time and energy required to look after them the way they need to be - so people need to be aware of the requirements when they get one. But if you can look after the dog then they are very loyal and lovely pets.

[Kanga]

Plus pitbulls tend to appeal to unsavoury types wanting a dog for all the wrong reasons.

[Mgee]

As an owner of two dogs, I think both parties are to blame. The owners for not being up to owning such a dog and not assuring the dog wasn't socialised better (chaining up can actually make fear aggressive dogs worse, so it's not the best approach -the dog would have needed a lot of special training), but the parents for not teaching their kids NEVER to approach a strange dog without asking for a permission from its owner first. This was a very, very sad incident and luckily the boy got away with "just" bites.

As an owner of two dogs, I would like to plead to all parents on this forum, because I know you're responsible folk:
Us humans don't like to be approached by just anyone on the street, and neither do dogs. Even a well-socialised dog might not like to be touched by just anyone, especially if it's of a hunting/guarding breed or just a bit reserved by nature. Even a well-trained and super-socialised pet dog is not common property and it has the right to be left alone if it wants to do so. A dog left on the leash has no means of escaping the situation, and for that reason may try to defend itself if it feels threatened in any way. A pat on the dog's head is a threatening & agressive gesture from the dog's point of view: try to imagine someone three times your height reaching towards your head from the above -it's scary.

Therefore it's extremely important to teach the kids not to approach any dogs without asking its owner first AND to obey without questioning if the owners tell them not to approach the dog and NEVER to approach dogs that have been left alone. During our walks, my dogs are frequently approached by children, observed or sometimes accompanied by their parents, without asking any kind of permission and getting upset when I tell them not to come nearer. My dogs aren't aggressive, they're just not used to kids and don't know how to react to them or how to behave with them.

Children's behaviour is very different from adult human's behaviour: they run, laugh, scream etc. in a way that few adults do. Their body language is different from that of adults. This can be either frightening for a dog and/or it can trigger a hunting/guarding/herding etc. instinct in a dog, especially if the dog in question is not used to kids. Therefore it's important to teach the kids not to run, scream etc. near dogs, especially strange ones, as it may create dangerous situations even with the best-trained dogs. Under stress or when it feels that it is being threatened, even a trained dog will follow its instincts, and depending on a dog it's either a herding one (like with my collies) or a hunt/kill or guarding instinct.

A well-socialised pet dog is still an animal. You probably won't let your kids to go and play with the neighbours' stallion even though its owners can control it -the dogs are just the same. My dogs are OK with kids they know well, but I still NEVER leave them alone with kids. I try to do my part as a responsible dog owner, and I hope you as responsible parents do your part. Thank you.

[newarrival]

I have to agree to what Mgee says, even a well trained dog is ananimal and I know of a case, many years ago, in my parents wider circle of friends, where a grwon up woman was badly bitten in her head by the dog of friends, as far as I remember a Labrador or something similar, because she somehow bent down and came under the height of the dog, which somehow triggered the very odd behaviour. She was very seriously injured.

And just to clarify it- I don't like pitbulls or any other of those breeds, but I don't think you can pin the blame only on the owners of the dog. And yes, I do have children.......

[Sam B]

My children are generally very well-behaved, and some people have even suggested that I may be too strict(!), but you can not always predict the behaviour of children. I have repeatedly told my children to NEVER touch or approach strange dogs, and have given them lengthy explanations why, and made sure that they see information about dog attacks in the news.

However, they have never been attacked by dogs, know only friendly dogs, and are animal lovers in that annoying 'I want to cuddle you to death' way that children have. So this tends to be one of the few areas where they have repeatedly ignored my warnings. As soon as a dog and owner walks past they are like bees to honey. Well they were, until one dog owner really shouted at them (oh the mortification of being shouted at by a stranger). They were about 11 and 7 then, and I've never had a problem since.

So, you can't completely control children (more's the pity). But I will keep trying.