Is NZ the place for me? (long post)

[MontrealMum]

Life is great here in Quebec. Houses are beautiful, people are beautiful and we feel safe and secure.

We live in a two-storey house… similar to many other houses in our neighbourhood with a nice back yard surrounded by tall cedar hedges.

I’m sitting in my home office. There is a volcano-shaped fountain with water flowing onto little rocks on the desk next to my Mac. I have IKEA shelves behind me with dark brown cloth boxes to hold various items and a simple, stone Buddha head sitting on some Design magazines. My walls are taupe and my wainscoting is beige. I am in a beautiful room in my beautiful 4-bedroom house. It was $230K a few years ago when we bought it and it would fetch about $600K if it sat in NZ.

I drive a mini-van. I have three young boys to drive to school every morning. It’s a suburban elementary school with multiple safety implementations and a wonderful staff that truly cares about the children. It’s an English school, but it’s a French-immersion school: English children go there and are “immersed” into French but the staff, the administration, is all English because is it, after-all, an English school.

My husband works in the city – a sixty-minute commute. He does not like his job and it does not pay very well which is too bad because he is very smart. In May, he will return to school to get an Attestation in IT/Programming but with the attestation, he might get a 30% pay increase… might.

On some days, I go to COSTCO. COSTCO is a HUGE, MASSIVE warehouse filled with food and stuff! It was originally meant for restaurants and schools and businesses but it is now for the everyday consumer! I feel like a sheep being herded around a maze of pallets. It’s an overwhelming place. I push a gigantic cart down wide isles grabbing tubs of condiments, oversized boxes of diapers, and kilo’s upon kilo’s of meat which I then pack into our chest freezer in the basement.

We are not big eaters. In fact, I buy mostly organic and we are all very thin and healthy. We don’t eat much dairy and we avoid gluten. We don’t really eat sugary sweets and we love vegetables but alas, I still shop at COSTCO… sometimes. Why? Because if I can go to COSTCO and spend an hour grabbing as MUCH food as possible, then I will not have to go grocery shopping as often which means I do not have to leave my house as often!

But why do you ask… is it such a big deal to leave my house? And why do you ask do I want to leave Montreal and why do you ask, would I chose to move to NZ?

I have wanted to leave Quebec my whole life. I’ve never fit in. First of all, I am English and in this province, French is literally SHOVED down your throat! Signs here have to be French. If you put English on your sign, it must be 50% smaller than the French. Same with ads and promotions.

Half the people here are separatists. Which means, they want to separate from the rest of Canada. I had a Canadian flag on the front of my house. It was stolen a few weeks ago.

If you call the Provincial Government, many of the services are only offered in French, even though Canada is a bilingual country.

Our income taxes reach 49% at around $70k and our sales taxes are at about 15%. We have free healthcare but it’s not uncommon to wait over 7 hours in a hospital ER. But ultimately, that is Canada and not just Quebec so I am going on a bit of a tangent when it comes to taxes.

As for THIS province, the language issues are frustrating and degrading. Having your flag stolen is infuriating. Being spoken to only in French at the stores gets annoying and getting smug looks for talking in English is belittling. English speaking Quebecers are truly made to feel inferior.

So why not simply move out of Quebec you ask? Well, that is my second issue. The weather!! Although I am sitting in my little Feng-Shui, 24-degree, haven of an office, outside sits three feet of snow and a thermometer reading -10 degrees C. Yeah, it’s sunny so I can’t complain about that but the sun’s rays do nothing to warm the air around me. I walk out and I look at the sun, basking in its light, wishing I could get up a little closer and actually feel its heat but no… nothing but frigid wind and squalls of snow. And just as I begin to appreciate the fact that at least there is a LOT of sunshine here, I remember that by 16:15, it has already set and we are left in the cold, winter darkness called “the end of the day”. Its not even evening and it’s dark!

That’s when I get nauseous. That’s when my gut floats up into my throat and I want to get out of this frozen land. When I have to spend 40 minutes gathering up my children’s winter clothes just to go out for an hour. When I have to mop up all the dirty water from my entrance left from ten snow covered boots and ten mittens. When I have a three-year-old all bundled up look up at me and say, “I gotta go pee”. When everything in the floor of my van is wet and soggy from all the slush, snow and salt. When I have to wipe my kids’ runny noses for them because they don’t want to take off their mittens. When I have to put on boots, a coat and a hat just to get the mail and the recycling bin from the end of the driveway. Just because I wholeheartedly HATE, hate, hate the cold.

But alas, May rolls around and for a few brief months of 15 to 30 degree, sunshine I am in heaven again! When summer is here I am in my full glory!! I bike everywhere with my children! I spend hours outside. I garden. I almost dance! (But then I complain it’s too hot! LOL). In one year… this province goes from -25 to +30 and back again!

So why not move to Vancouver you ask? Because, as much as I detest the snow, I love the sun and I cannot imagine living in a place that sees very little sun. The skies are so low in Vancouver that you can almost TOUCH them. I would die without the sun – despite the cold.

So why not move to the good’ol USA? No… because… just because.

So where else can we possibly move? Gimmi some suggestions here? It has to be English, it has to be warm and there must be good job opportunities. I do NOT belong with the type of consumers we have here! I do NOT belong at COSTCO!

The pace MUST be slower! I feel my life slipping away. It’s all going by too fast and I cannot appreciate anything. As much as I would love to get up and go anywhere, I do have children so I have to think of them too.

Where should we live? Am I delusional to think NZ can offer more to my family and me? Am I wrong to think that here in Quebec, life is too fast. Is NZ any different? Will I belong there any more than I belong here?

[Dell]

We have free healthcare but it’s not uncommon to wait over 7 hours in a hospital ER. But ultimately, that is Canada and not just Quebec so I am going on a bit of a tangent when it comes to taxes.

Sorry, my comment has nothing to do with why you should move to NZ, but this is one of the reasons I'm returning to NZ. I live in the US. I pay US$700 a month for health insurance. (but I still have to pay the first US$3000 each year). I had to go to the ER two years ago. I arrived at 1:30 AM. The doctor saw me at 6:00 AM. I won't even get into what it cost me because it makes me crazy.

When I have to spend 40 minutes gathering up my children’s winter clothes just to go out for an hour. When I have to mop up all the dirty water from my entrance left from ten snow covered boots and ten mittens. When I have a three-year-old all bundled up look up at me and say, “I gotta go pee”. When everything in the floor of my van is wet and soggy from all the slush, snow and salt. When I have to wipe my kids’ runny noses for them because they don’t want to take off their mittens. When I have to put on boots, a coat and a hat just to get the mail and the recycling bin from the end of the driveway. Just because I wholeheartedly HATE, hate, hate the cold.

Another reason I'm going back to NZ. ROFL at your "I gotta go pee". I remember.

I grew up about an hour north of Auckland. We saw ice on puddles in the winter on occasion. I had the greatest childhood - on the edge of a river/estuary with 7 acres of native bush to play in. In the summer, we'd leave the house in the morning with an apple and a hard-boiled egg and would be gone all day. There was nothing in the bush that could hurt us - no wild animals, no snakes....and Glory-be! No skunks!!

Back then, the crime rate was very, very low. Granted, it is higher now - but the population is larger and now there are drugs in NZ. But it is certainly safer than where I live in Arizona where it seems you may be taking your life in your hands if you go to the grocery store. (referring to the mass shooting at Safeway in Tucson).

It has to be English, it has to be warm and there must be good job opportunities.
I'm not qualified to answer about the job opportunities as I'm a self-employed artist but people speak English and it is warmer than your neck of the woods. (make sure you buy a warm house).


I do NOT belong with the type of consumers we have here! I do NOT belong at COSTCO!

Me neither. I'm a square peg in a round hole.

It sounds to me like NZ is your place. You'll have to give up some things but you'll be gaining in the things that matter to you.

p.s. You sound like my kind of people. It would be nice to have you for a neighbor. I'm heading up north - somewhere between Warkworth and Doubtless Bay.

[Mamee & Co]

Coming from Scotland I can definitely sympathise with the drak nights, and to a certain extent the cold and wet and snow.

WE have found a paradise where our temps in the 6 months we have been here have gone from -5 to +31C. On the day it was -5 in the morning, it was beautiful sunshine and +10C by about noon. Herre, in Christchurch, the sun shines more.

Your house is your haven. In your description it is your house that is the bit you love. You can recreate it wherever you go.

However, I would say it is often a culture shock to those from North America when it comes to prices, service etc. from speaking to recent incomers here. You will still wait in A&E when it is busy, you will still have to wait for inpatient healthcare, but that goes for any nation, I think, with a nationalised healthcare system. But those from whom I have heard who have gone through NZ's system have generally been happy with it.

The main thing is to sort out your reasons for coming. I know of some who thought it might be the answer to everything, but instead have come to realise that it is family problems which were at the root cause and they will, after some adventures, be returning.

The kids, the work, the day to day chores will still exist. There is no escaping that...but I am happy to do it in NZ>

[Dell]

You haven't mentioned family. This is the main reason I've stayed in the US for so long. Are your kids close to their grandparents? Will you miss family or do they have the means to visit you?

[Parsley]

This isn't meant to sound trite, but life is what you make it. Just remember that wherever you go, there you are. Change is always an option, and I don't want to think (for me) that I'll be elderly and looking back wondering "what if." I honestly think that if you examine all the pros, cons and motivations for what you wish to do AND combine that with as much research as you can, then you'll have a more realistic view of what will benefit you and your family in the long term. And nothing is forever - there's plenty of people on here who've made the Big Leap to NZ (and then back and forth to a wide variety of places) to make you realise that if you dislike your choice that much, you'll change it.

P

[Tui2too]

Mtlmum: move to Ottawa ;-)
We have a excellent hospitals, clinics taking new patients, health services etc. I know which emergency room won't have much of a wait. Although officially a bilingual city (so the kids can stay in immersion) it is English everywhere. Excellent schools. The economy seems fine as new restaurants are booming and roads are always being improved. We have a lot of sunshine hours here in the west of the city (I think its on par as the sunniest part of Canada with somwhere in Sask). We have a great variety of affordable nice housing, country living close to the city etc. Unfortunately there is still Costco, I totally agree with you on that...I got nauseaus everytime I went there and think if only I could be in NZ now to be away from this culture. Then I realized I could stop my membership! Wonders of wonders we CAN live without Costco! Winters can be depressing, my kids have outgrown snow-suits thankfully. They now love downhill $kiing and wipe their own noses, so you have that to look forward to ;-) We are also planning to move to NZ, and we realize we will be giving up a warm well insulated house and many comforts we take for granted (like turning up the thermostat). I have a good friend who recently immigrated here to Canada from NZ. She loves New Brunswick (!) and says she is much warmer here in Canada, she never wants to go back to NZ due to always feeling cold there (Wellington). NZ is not the paradise answer we sometimes wish it to be, but you probably know that. Living overseas in my opinion and experience is always a positive enriching experience. I think we can take the positive or negative out of anywhere we stay long enough in.

[MontrealMum]

You haven't mentioned family. This is the main reason I've stayed in the US for so long. Are your kids close to their grandparents? Will you miss family or do they have the means to visit you?

There are only two people (other than hubby and kids) that mean the world to me and that is my mum and dad. We are extremely close. They live 2 minutes away and we see them many times in the week. My father takes my son skiing twice a week. My mother is my foundation and the person whom I rely on for every situation in my life.

They are the only reason I have not left.

For the same reason that I hesitate to leave, they did not leave either. And for the same reason they did not leave, THEIR parents did not leave either.

It's is a deep path carved for us and meant to keep us somewhere which we are not truly happy and if I wait too long, I too will be stuck here for my children will grown up and I will not have the heart to leave them.

My parents have many reasons to stay. I have a brother and I have 8 aunts and uncles, dozens of cousins. Although I am not close to any of them, my parents are and so... they cannot leave but me... it's just two people. Yes, two very IMPORTANT people but still... only two!

Do I base my decision on my parents? Someone MUST take that first, very difficult step of getting out of this rut and starting a new path... one where our children will say "thank-you!" for setting roots somewhere "better". I say "better" but that is subjective of course.

[Dell]

It's difficult to leave but the world is much smaller than it used to be...plus you can get a phone plan with unlimited overseas calls and then there's Skype. I'll be leaving my son and three grandkids - but will be back in the US for part of each year.

Not easy though.

[MontrealMum]

Mtlmum: move to Ottawa ;-)

Hubby and I were in the Canadian Forces and lived in Gatineau (my son was born there). We worked at the CF Health Care Centre at Smyth & Alta Vista and we LOVED Ottawa so I know that city well. I also did a summer as a Ceremonial Guard on Parliament Hill. We looked at some houses in Orleans but ultimately, it all comes down to the COLD! Brrrrr. LOL!

[sophiedb]

I've only been here a couple of months and my husband is Kiwi, so we have family here as well as in my home country and also are still in the settling-in/honeymoon phase

What I can tell is that so far, I'm loving NZ. Chch fits my idea of a city where you can go to the beach in the summer and drive a short way to the skifields in winter. Parking in the CBD is very pricey, but I can easily catch a bus or cycle instead (this place is as flat as a pancake). There are parks and playgrounds everywhere. Kids are allowed to learn by misadventure - my daughter's preschool has a workshop table with REAL HAMMERS and NAILS - though hubby's 11yo niece likes make-up and is trying to grow up too quickly...

Fun that we want our daughter to experience is here, the influences we wanted to escape are creeping in... but at the same time I'm not sure how well the negatives will actually lodge in NZ. Kiwis are very independent and few seem to like being manipulated by marketing; they also prize being able to go out and do stuff. All kinds of stuff. Themselves. Not paying someone else to or watching them do it on tv.

A complete generalisation, I admit, but certainly the impression I'm getting from family and colleagues. Most of them went camping or tramping for their summer holiday, not jetting off to the Med - in part due to the expense and isolation I'm sure, but it's not like anyone's complaining about the beuaty of Abel Tasman - and the dress code seems pretty relaxed. My manager looks very uncomfortable on the odd day he has a suit-worthy meeting

Have you done a recce to NZ as yet?? Massively recommended, though not essential. Come over for as long as you possibly can

Btw, NZ is a bicultural country too and I do want learn some basic Maori, but from what I can see it's not as them-and-us as Quebec sounds in your post. (which is interesting for me.. I'm half-French and often wondered whether I should try living in Quebec one day... but the cold always put me off!)