De facto work VISA

[chrismnz]

I need some advice, and next-step help, having just had my partner of 2 years work VISA application declined. I have since called the branch manager, complained through the complaints procedure, where it was sent to a Pacific Island branch manager who basically said procedures were followed, completely disregarding my points and questions and spent all of 24hours obtaining, reviewing and concluding this decision. I then immediately responded and received an out-of-office reply (till January 5, 2012) so clearly he HAD to respond within 15 days (INZ rules) and as this manager was away on holiday just cleared his inbox.

Our case, in brief, is I lived with my partner while a tourist, for 3 months with her in her South American home country. I ran out of money, and could no longer extend my tourist VISA there and returned home, worked hard and brought her to NZ under a sponsored tourist application. She was here for 3 months, lived with me, and then returned to complete her tertiary studies. I then returned for a 5-week visit, again staying with her. She now wishes to move here and not so much to work but more to have the option to get out of the house as although she knows people here we both agree work is a fantastic platform for meeting new people and making friends.

With our application we provided a Skype log of 14,991 minutes of calls, Facebook photos of all our time together in both countries and travelling together (1400+ photos), bank records showing dependence. They seem to entirely want a bill or any addressed mail to the same address which somehow PROVES we lived together. Now my partner is from a third-world nation where they don’t have mailboxes!! And I live (including the 3 months she spent here with me) in a family-owned house without contract, expense nor a rental agreement. The only utility bill, being electricity, is in other family members names (not mine) – I never ever have a single piece of mail addressed to my physical address and always have had it redirected to my parents’ house that are in the same city.

On advice, we provided four Statutory Declarations, from the home owner, my parents, colleagues who know us both, and my employer who knows us both about our situation and relationship. We also advised we have many others who can do the same under the Oaths and Declarations Act 1957 but thought it might be excessive to provide this. Yet mail which in itself tells half-truths is more important than the sworn word of the very citizens of New Zealand! Mail, such as the utility bill in the house I reside, are under my mother and brother’s names – my mum does not live here and I checked and you can add people to bills with ease, including adding my partner whilst she isn’t even in the country – yet if I had of, then this would indicate we have/had lived together!!!

I have her clothes, personal effects still throughout the house as I have taken a 32kg suitcase of her stuff back to NZ in preparation for her move yet they refused to view the video we sent with the application.

Yet received this from our case manager:

“…you do not meet the partnership instruction as you and Chris are not living together and have never lived together. That is, no solid proof of documents addressed to the same address in support of your claims. I do acknowledge the relationship existed i.e. boyfriend & girlfriend relationship only. However it is a long distance relationship as stated by Chris and it is definitely not a living together partnership.”

What I need is a where-to now, what would anyone with experience recommend as a next-step.

As we have gone through the expense of the medical, x-rays, police certificates and other documentation for the work VISA application to only receive a tourist VISA is outrageous. Her country had just 1 doctor in the entire country she was permitted to use and at monopolistic charges. Now my partner arrives under this tourist VISA in two weeks (we had pre-existing flights) so only took the VISA as $3000 to lose on the flights was going to be a problem and we were told we could complain about the work VISA decision anyhow and the process was slow.

Thanks for taking the time to read this we sincerely appreciate any help or advice or contacts that we could call upon.

[JandM]

This will probably sound harsh, and I'm sorry for that.

Don't waste energy ramming your head against a brick wall, trying to get somebody to admit they're wrong on this one. You haven't got proof of the sort that they require to tick their boxes, however much you and everyone around you knows that you DID live together.

You've got the visitor's visa, so at least your partner CAN legally join you, and once she does, you can make certain you immediately start collecting the sort of evidence that INZ is allowed to take notice of. Make certain official organizations send mail to both of you at the address where you both live. Sign her up with a doctor from that address. Get insurance and have the papers sent to that address. Have banks send to you there. When you have several weeks' worth of this, THEN you can apply for a partner-sponsored work visa, so as to build up to 12 months' evidence and go for Residence. Doing it this way is likely to be much more productive than taking a stance on your anger, trying to revive the case that they can't accept.

[sophiedb]

As JandM says, INZ case officers live for ticky boxes - as do the medical assessors, and in my case I ranted about their pedantic need for minute details too.

My husband and I had met people in your situation when we first got together. This made us quite paranoid about our ability to live in the same country for more than a year, and that's coming from two Commonwealth countries with working holiday visa agreements. We became quite fanatical about getting joint bank accounts, joint home insurance, both names on the car ownership papers, rates and so on. It worked, and once we had that first de facto visa it became very simple to get the rest (and in time we got married, but a marriage certificate doesn't count for much with evidence of cohabitation either).

I can see that some of this could be awkward for you with your current living and postal arrangements, but ridiculous as it might sound now this really is what it will take to convince INZ that you're living together in a genuine relationship. So what if you don't need a rental agreement or contents insurance: get it, in joint names. It will be cheaper than all the time, energy and frustration you'll expend ranting against INZ.. not to mention flights to South America.

Regards those working holiday visas, I don't suppose your partner is from one of those few S. American lands that have an agreement with NZ? (and is in the right age range?)

[chrismnz]

Thanks for the replies, and Sophie - no she is from Bolivia. A place where only 3 de facto work visas have been issued in 14 years! Yet they claim no bias or prejudice to particular countries it seems awfully coincedental...

Our situation will not improve when she arrives, I have zero insurance, no utilities and apart from a bank account (which will be joint as we return from the airport) and IRD (which we can't join) I have no further mail - not that the bank even sends me mail with the whole green movement and saving trees.

I don't see why we need to change the way we live and operate our normal lives to simply satisfy some boxes, we should be applauded for not having debt like most people not discriminated because we don't have bills, credit cards, rental agreements, or insurance. I even voluntarily repaid my student loan in full this year - which was my only previous debt.

The point we are trying to make is that it is not in Mercury Energy or Slingshot's or a utility companys interest to verify nor care about the billing name, I can add you to a bill over the phone if you reach the right operator, that does not prove we are in a living together relationship in the slightest!!

The second point is why the sworn Oath of our very citizens, sentencable to prison time if found guilty of perjury under section 208 of the Crimes Act 1961, holds no value! Those that completed the Oath are willing to go as far as required including court precedings to prove a point.

Although JandM your opinion is the route 99% would take, that is precisely why I won't be. I feel that change needs to occur as currently it discriminates against certain countries, and classes of citizens and they need to understand why and be able to express judgment in cases where 'necessary' evidence cannot be produced for valid reasons.

My next step will be a continuation of highlighting problems with the Immigration website so that gets fixed, and then pursuing avenues to have our case properly reviewed, not the previous lame 24hr effort by some guy about to head on holiday.

We entirely welcome Immigration visits to our residence, without warning to verify the living situation. We are open to providing access to absolutely anything with INZ as we have nothing to hide.

It makes no sense that my partner is allowed back in the country but has to go through this 'incubation period' VISA where she cannot add any value to society (asides from the fact 6 months ago they relaxed the volunteering rule so she will be helping out fulltime for the RSPCA). And after 3 months we have to reproduce documentation, reapply and then she can work... realistically it may have taken her 3 months to get a job as her qualifications don't translate to much here but she never intended in being overseas and needing such a degree.

So I will continue on my mission and keep you posted on progress if interested. I'll also post my current concerns with the website for your 2 cents...

[JandM]

Good luck. Sincerely, good luck.

But I bet, if it were possible to split you in half, and have one do the protest route you envisage, and one the bend-with-the-wind I outlined, my one would be sorted first, and getting on with his life with his partner. For how long do you want this to be a big part of your life?

[sophiedb]

Thanks for the replies, and Sophie - no she is from Bolivia. A place where only 3 de facto work visas have been issued in 14 years! Yet they claim no bias or prejudice to particular countries it seems awfully coincedental...

It may also be partly because NZ and Bolivia both have relatively small populations, and while Kiwis are very mobile indeed the same cannot be said for most Bolivians. The crossing of paths, let alone falling love, has to be pretty rare.

Best wishes in your mission. I'm afraid to say that I suspect you'll find it a very long and frustrating road, with little likelihood of success against the bureaucratic machine. It's not an ideal machine, but generally speaking it does the job and the NZ population (only a small portion of whom have any experience let alone interest in how INZ go about their work) are satisfied.

Good luck, and I hope your partner enjoys her time in NZ however long it turns out to be.

[chrismnz]

JandM you miss the big picture, by doing this it is not so much going to help us but help all those in the future under similar circumstances - where they have lived for months with a partner in a third-world country where residential houses do not have a mail system as we know and cannot prove this as living together time.

Clearly we have to undertake this 'incubation period' until we get results but we would also be doing this regardless of protesting.

I have made changes successfully in the past through protest - the website used to state something along the lines of "applications to be sent to your nearest Embassy" yet when you used the office finder tool you get a differing answer. In our situation and previous application I questioned this as Bolivia borders both Peru and Argentina and we have Embassies there yet our application MUST be made in Washington, USA!

Also with the problems we have been incurring, we refused to complete the tourist VISA forms as if you look at what forms you complete for a work app. it would be simply be time and money wasting to copy your name across and send it. That was a successful protest.

With that change of VISA we needed to make payment immediately yet Washington, incredibly, cannot accept credit card or any other modern instant form of payment yet Fedex can when they send us the docs!! So I stormed my local Immigration office who were anything but helpful citing we never do this and cannot blah blah and refused to assist, so I called my case manager, told her to add to the notes section "payment to be made in Dunedin branch 05/12/11" - they then looked up the file again and were stunned and reluctantly, yet suprisingly, then able to use the eftpos machine on the counter that they alleged earlier could not be used in our instance.

The problem I have is the employees are too engrossed in systems and box-checking to be of any real assistance, you have to pretty much refuse to leave and win a fiery argumentative war to get anything achieved. Although I have been enjoying doing this as I am slowly seeing progress which will hopefully, in some small way, contribute to others going forward.

[lin]

Hi chrismnz, the Immigration website clearly states that for Partnership sponsered visas you must be living together for a minimum of 12 months - have you met this criteria? http://glossary.immigration.govt.nz/Partner.htm

[chrismnz]

It may also be partly because NZ and Bolivia both have relatively small populations, and while Kiwis are very mobile indeed the same cannot be said for most Bolivians. The crossing of paths, let alone falling love, has to be pretty rare.

True but zero Ecuadorians and zero Paraguayians have made it on that visa type. Its not a question of whether they are allowed in its more a question of why they seem to be forced into this incubation period visa and not given the work visa outright - most probably because achieving the required documentation is heavily biased due to this mail issue alone.

The way I see it is that we lose as a couple the potential of 6 months of (at worst) minimum wage income for what? This income would be taxed and benefits society. Instead these people now typically stay at home and contribute nothing! If you seriously have any concerns with my partner why even allow her in??

I am more than willing to donate to a cause I believe in and have already donated $1000 this financial year, which INZ can see on my bank records and through IRD filings from previous years of my donation history. So I more than do my part financially, not saying others don't do more as time is often far more valuable to some organisations but it's more than most. But to now donate 6 months labour, which obviously has numerous positive spin-offs from doing so, such as references, work friends, feel-good factor, a purpose etc. - it also adds a more than $10k foregone wages cost to the decision not to mention the cost of redoing medicals/x-rays/documents and visa application fees.

[chrismnz]

Hi chrismnz, the Immigration website clearly states that for Partnership sponsered visas you must be living together for a minimum of 12 months - have you met this criteria? http://glossary.immigration.govt.nz/Partner.htm

Haha i'm glad you mentioned this. Also note the following,

Joining your partner in New Zealand
If you want to join your partner in New Zealand and work, you may be eligible for a work visa under our Family Stream.

PROBLEM: You cannot JOIN your partner in New Zealand because you must be living together at the time of application!

Definition of join (www.dictionary.com)
join (join)
v. joined, join•ing, joins
v.tr.
1. To put or bring together so as to make continuous or form a unit: join two boards with nails; joined hands in a circle.
2. To put or bring into close association or relationship: two families that were joined by marriage; join forces.
3. To connect (points), as with a straight line.
4. To meet and merge with: where the creek joins the river.
5. To become a part or member of: joined the photography club.
6. To come into the company of: joined the group in the waiting room.
7. To participate with in an act or activity: The committee joins me in welcoming you.
8. To adjoin.
9. To engage in; enter into: Opposing armies joined battle on the plain.
v.intr.
1. To come together so as to form a connection: where the two bones join.
2. To act together; form an alliance: The two factions joined to oppose the measure.
3. To become a member of a group.
4. To take part; participate: joined in the search.

Secondly,

If you have been in this relationship for less than a year, initially we can only grant you a work visa for up to 12 months. Once you are here, you can apply for further work visas for a total stay of up to two years from your arrival, if:
• you and your partner want to stay longer in New Zealand and can show us that you are still in a genuine and stable relationship, or
• you apply for residence as a partner.

http://www.immigration.govt.nz/migra...milystream.htm

Contradictory much??

Also there are these rules, as we CAN be apart at the time of application:

F2.20.15b - If a couple has been living separately for any period during their partnership, they should provide evidence of the length of the periods of separation, the reasons for them, and how their relationship was maintained during the periods of separation, such as letters, itemised telephone accounts or e-mail messages.

And this is from the branch manager of Washington
"This section of policy means that, if a couple are have been living apart, we do not immediately decline the application. It means we can request evidence of maintaining their relationship while apart and, thereby, not look detrimentally upon that period. However, it does not mean that we can therefore assess those periods of separation as contributing towards the length of their relationship. The length of their relationship is still calculated based on time actually living together."


So again WHY don't we qualify for an upto 12 month work visa??