Availability times and salary negotiations, - IT companies

[Bob and Anji]

Hi folks,

I’m hoping that someone who is familiar with IT companies and agencies can throw a little light on job seeking in New Zealand.

We’re going on a recce trip in the middle of February, and we’ve been sending out CV’s and contacting agencies and companies directly. Not getting much response from companies, - but the feedback we’re getting from agencies is that our timeline is too long, (“wouldn’t consider putting you in front of a client company with that kind of delay….”). We’re going to be away from home on this trip for about 2 months, then return home and hand in notice etc., we’re coming up to three months minimum.

The kind of company that is likely to employ Bob is probably one of the big boys, multinational players, (fingers crossed!). His job is fairly specialised and we know that these companies recruit from overseas. I would have thought that a three month timeline wouldn’t have been unreasonable.

Basically the agencies we’ve contacted seem only interested in two things: When can you get here, (like yesterday), and what are your salary expectations. Haven’t delved into the CV or asked what he might be looking for, interested in, or might consider as an alternative.

He has been offered a job over the phone, the agency wanted him to resign before we left and him to stay on in New Zealand when we come out! Very reassuring, - but we really want to have a good look around before making the final decision, both regarding location and job opportunities. (I don’t want to sound over picky, - but the job wasn’t really a particularly good fit anyway).

But really was wondering what the “norm” was in big companies prepared to recruit from overseas. What kind of timescales they would accept?

Also given that salaries aren’t really published on job ads, and the agencies have been quite insistent of knowing what kind of salary he’s expecting, and reading some of the previous posts on this site, - was wondering how much of an element of “price negotiation” was involved in getting a job? In the UK a company tends to make an offer and you either accept or decline, - from what I’m picking up, in NZ you state what you’re looking for and the employer accepts or declines. Is that correct?

Another final question, - are big companies likely to offer a relocation package, or again, do you ask and negotiate? To be honest, we’ve been considering emigrating to NZ for some years now and never expected or budgeted for any relocation expenses. But I see from some of the posts on here, that it is sometimes offered. Is this common? Is it cheeky to ask for it, if it’s not mentioned? If it’s not unusual, what kind of sums are the norm?

Sorry for the barrage, - we’ve done a lot of the general legwork, and just have questions as we get nearer to actual interviews, and hopefully, job offers, - and any advice would be really welcome so that we don’t put our feet in it!!!

We’re looking at our recce trip as the final pass on how we like the country and confirming we definitely want to move and live in NZ. A job offer would be great, - but if the timings are so wrong for potential employers, we’re quite happy to come home and keep an eye out for suitable work from here, and if we get a job offer we know we’re happy about the move and just have to give notice and move, - so the timings drop to a month or six weeks.

Apologies for the ramble…. The stress is starting to show!!!

Many thanks all….


Anji

[Manks]

I think salaries over here work in a very similar way to the UK - there's a range the employer can pay for a role due to its grade. When I went for my last job in the UK, it just said "competitive salary" and when I was verbally offered the job, they asked me what I wanted and it went from there. So not very different to here really.

I've applied for some jobs recently where I've given my salary expectations and, if the proposed salary is lower than that, they recruiter has often said that they're sure there's some flexibility.

As for relocation packages, they aren't the norm, definitely the exception. Even in the big companies. I was talking to Air NZ first of all as I know the GM in charge of marketing and comms there. He said that Air NZ offer no relocation assistance, either internationally or domestically. In this economic climate, I expect they've become even more scarce. But always worth asking. I came here with a job offer with a very small company (5 people) and they gave me 2 weeks' accommodation and car hire to help us get settled. I asked for a month but this is what they came back with. So as you see, it's all a negotiation.

[Sun777]

Another final question, - are big companies likely to offer a relocation package, or again, do you ask and negotiate? To be honest, we’ve been considering emigrating to NZ for some years now and never expected or budgeted for any relocation expenses. But I see from some of the posts on here, that it is sometimes offered. Is this common? Is it cheeky to ask for it, if it’s not mentioned? If it’s not unusual, what kind of sums are the norm?

Relocation package is generally negotiated and do ask it from your end, in my case I asked and did succeed to get xyz amount i.e. One way flight cost for family and 2 weeks accommodation, all of this came handy as I didn't have to struggle to look for a place immediately after arriving here and also get my mind settled with location, commute & feel of the city. Along with relocation package (sometimes) you might have 1 or 2 year minimum service clause depending on the amount.

Which domain does your OH specialize into? ( I mean banking, telecommunication, insurance ?)

[Bob and Anji]

Hi guys,

Thanks so much for your responses. We’ve done so much research on the internet, jobs and emigration fairs and are boggled having caught every episode of “Wanted Down Under”, when we finally booked our recce trip and started talking to agencies.

We just got a little taken aback by the initial responses from the agencies, which seemed to be “well, if you’re not coming out here ready to work….”, “companies are not going to hang around for three months…” and we wondered if we’d got it all a bit wrong and were wasting our time and money in booking the check it out trip. We have an EOI in, but probably due to Bob being 50, we need a job offer. However, some of the companies/agencies we spoke to at jobs fairs and during our recent trawl, have stated that the type of company that would employ him are “accredited companies”, and could organise a visa for him in weeks.

That all being said we would want to do this trip before emigrating, as it’s quite possibly the last big move we’ll ever make, and we need to be sure, however inviting it all looks, that it really is for us. We’re treating it as a working holiday!!! With luck, we’ll come home with a job offer, - if not, we’ll have had a wonderful holiday and experience, - and if we’re still keen to move, we’ll plug away from the UK and perhaps get a job offer later on.

With regard to the salaries, again agencies were kind of giving us the garage mechanic whistling through his teeth response, when we told them what Bob was earning and that he hoped for a bit of an improvement on that. Some responses were that the New Zealand market was a lot smaller and we couldn’t expect UK range of salaries. Which kind of surprised us, because we’ve been watching the Seek and Trademe sites for some time and could see that there was work in Bob’s area, (even taking out all the duplicate agency postings), and if you played around with the little slidery thing on the salary ranges on Seek, - the salaries seem comparable to the UK. Which is fine for us, - we relocating for lifestyle change rather than financial reward, - so if we can come up with a package similar to the UK that would be great.

But having read previous posts on this site about folks negotiating salaries up from an initial offer and companies trying to recruit from overseas on the cheap, - just wondered if that’s what was going on here, that they were trying to talk down his expectations so that he’d accept a low offer.

Anyway, I suppose as the trip is so near that we’re getting into the stress and worry and trying to cram before the exams mode… In a way I sympathise with the agencies, I’m sure they get inundated with CV’s from around the world from folks that just machine gun emails in the hope of a hit, and they're trying to separate the wheat from the chaff. We’ll be out there soon, and I’m sure if we can get a few face to face meetings with potential employers or agencies we’ll be reassured, and hopefully so will they, - ‘cos we have done our homework and we really are ready to roll.

Many thanks for the feedback on the relocation packages, - even though we weren’t expecting one, I think we’ll certainly ask about it, if the negotiations get to that stage, and as this relocation business is quite costly, any contribution will be a real bonus!!!

Sun777, Bob works as an Infrastructure Manager in a large local authority, 5000+ employees, and core responsibility is Backup and Storage. So he’s either looking for something similar, or employment with one of the big hardware suppliers, Technical Architect or even pre sales or sales.

Again guys, many thanks for the responses, really appreciate you taking the time to reply, - very decent of you.

Counting the days to lift off!!!

Anji

[noodles3]

Hi Anji,

Have you researched companies in the same/similar field and tried to contact them directly to get some feedback on demand? I think you are right about agencies being bombarded with CV's and you not being here just adds one more complexity when there are plenty of people here in NZ looking for work at the moment. Also my wife's experience with agencies has been less than inspiring and we are actually here!

You are doing exactly the right thing by coming over as you will get a lot more traction from potential employers by actually being here to sit and talk face to face. Hopefully this will lead into an offer.

Good luck.

[Bob and Anji]

Hi Noodles,

Many thanks for your reply, it’s really helpful to get feedback from folks on the ground.

We have contacted agencies who seem to be offering the type of work Bob is involved with, and although we have got some negative feedback from them regarding salaries and timelines, - some have shown some interest and we have got a couple of appointments to come in and discuss Bob’s prospects.

We’ve also contacted some of the hardware suppliers directly, - we thought this would be a good bet as some of Bob’s colleagues doing the same kind of job on different sites have left and got jobs there. That has proved a bit more difficult, as they don’t just accept speculative CV’s, - you have to apply for specific jobs on their websites. He did apply for some, (but they were near enough, - but not quite a good fit), in the hope they might say, “not suitable for that job lad, but we might have something else for you…”. Hasn’t happened, just polite rejections and “we’ll keep your CV on file…”

That being said, one large company, who wouldn’t have been an obvious choice, did phone us and seemed to indicate they would be interested in seeing Bob when he came, - but we’ve heard nothing from them for a week…

More disappointing was we met some companies at various job fairs, and they had long chats with us and seemed very keen, really “when can you come” conversations. We’ve applied through their websites, HR departments, and emailed letter and CV’s directly to the people we spoke to here, - but as yet no results.

We really tried to think this through logically, - we knew that things slow down there over Christmas and New Year, so we planned our trip to avoid that period and hopefully things would be back to normal by this time of year. We waited until the month before we were leaving before knocking out CV’s, rather than making applications too soon, and they’d end up gathering dust somewhere.

We were hoping that we would get a number of actual interviews lined up for our time in New Zealand, but that really doesn’t seem to be happening, - just a few invites to “come in and have a chat…” But, who knows, from little acorns…

Ah well, probably over panicking here, - still a few weeks before we leave, and we are stopping off in Oz to visit Bob’s brother before arriving in NZ, - so I think we’ll end up hitting the phones and try and make more direct contact once we’re at that side of the world, and hopefully get some meetings…

Gosh, this is absolutely nerve racking!!!

Anji

[JandM]

but we’ve heard nothing from them for a week…

...and the mention of hearing nothing yet from the others. This is NOTHING in NZ timing - it's really s-l-o-w, and elastic. It sounds as if you're doing everything you should. All the best.

[sophiedb]

We just got a little taken aback by the initial responses from the agencies, which seemed to be “well, if you’re not coming out here ready to work….”, “companies are not going to hang around for three months…” and we wondered if we’d got it all a bit wrong and were wasting our time and money in booking the check it out trip. We have an EOI in, but probably due to Bob being 50, we need a job offer. However, some of the companies/agencies we spoke to at jobs fairs and during our recent trawl, have stated that the type of company that would employ him are “accredited companies”, and could organise a visa for him in weeks.

I don't know about private sector, but I do know that the managers in Chch council's IT dept were perfectly ready to wait 6 months for the right candidate if need be, and if they were high enough up there were relocation expenses etc thrown in too. I've moved onto another job now (I am paperwork-variety admin) but do remember that they understood the concept of not moving halfway round the world till employment is concrete. Probably around 33% of the dept were immigrants though, maybe that was why

[Bob and Anji]

Hi Jane and Sophie,

Many thanks for your feedback, really helpful, as we were starting to take this all very personally!!!

I suppose we were actually hoping to have a number of interviews lined up for when we got there, but from the responses, - it doesn’t look as if that is going to happen. So we have some meetings with agencies, and fingers crossed, if they see we’ve actually arrived, ready to return on a shorter deadline, and of course, they see that Bob doesn’t have two heads, - they might be able to do something for us, or at least point us in the right direction!

I lived and worked in Ireland for many years, so I totally get that another country that speaks the same language can have a very different way of dealing with things. So we’ll just have to go with the flow and keep our fingers crossed!

Speaking to my sister in law in Australia, she tells me that out there, they “count the sleeps” to something you’re looking forward to, - so for us, - another ten sleeps and counting, ‘til we head for the airport!

Again, many thanks for your responses, really appreciate the inside knowledge!

Anji

[victoria24]

as someone who got a job offer during a recce, I think you'll find that the responses will change once bob is face to face with an employer. agencies work on commission from their client so tend to be quite short sighted as they need to fill their vacancies now not in "some" months time.
I'd advise that when you're here to try and get to a clear timeline in your heads (if you do decide that you'll make the move) as any uncertainty might put employers off.
also, agencies are assessed by their end client as to the quality of applicant put forward and I think taking into account your current circumstance, Bob may not be classed as "quality" due to the aforementioned.
have you thought about looking on banks websites? they tend to have a lot of IT needs here and are big enough to have more elastic timescales?