I need good advice

[LeavingEurope]

This reply strikes me as being extremely curt, when I have just made suggestions which could actually help you to do what you have said you would like to do. It is based in firm fact.

In my time, I have had lucrative career strings from knowledge and qualifications acquired originally in following up personal interests outside my (extensive) formal education. There are many people on this forum who have come to NZ on a WHV and got better than minimum-wage pay using skills learnt on Saturday or holiday jobs. You asked for suggestions for doing something other than the obvious basic beginning of career path, or ticking over on minimum pay while seeing other parts of the world. Don't turn your nose up when people take the trouble to answer you out of experience.

I'm not disrespecting your advice, on the contrary. It just frustrates me that it is so hard to find proper work.
And what are examples of those skills you mean? In Australia they are hair dressing, fixing cars, being an electrician, a plummer.. I don't call them skills but professions.
I studied physiotherapy in Belgium to make good money later on and have certainty in life. Keep my options open. Now it turns out there are not nearly as many options as I thought.

[LeavingEurope]

I thought that you had received a pretty reasonable reply, but you come across as a arrogant self centered prima donna.

The short answer to you is, go get a job in Switzerland, I am sure they would be very lucky to have you.

How much money do you think that me and my parents spent on education? I want to work and make up for it.
Not in Belgium since the future on other continents is much brighter. That's why I want to take my chances now and not after 5 years of working in Belgium when I have settled down.
People always tell me that the perfect time to go and work abroad is right after graduation

[LeavingEurope]

What we would like to hear are your money saving tips - as you said you are earning minimum wage in Australia and can save on that. You certainly wouldn't be able to do any saving on the NZ minimum wage, or maybe I just spend too much.

Working minimum wage full time in Australia allows you to make $4000 per month.
I spend $600/month on accomodation and $600 on food. Occasionally a beer, which brings the total to approximately $1400 costs per month.
I can save loads here providing there is work.

Money saving tips: don't drink $8 beers in Australia, don't smoke and eat cheap/healthy Asian food from the outdoor market

[LeavingEurope]

But you have worked hard to get a qualification, so now you just need to get some experience and prove to employers that you are employable. Unfortunately not many employers are that impressed by a stint of dishwashing in Australia straight after graduation.
Good luck.

Agreed. I would love to gain this working experience and life experience abroad but apparantly I am forced to stay in Europe. And I never expected that to be the case

[LeavingEurope]

First off I welcome you to the forum.
May I then say that we are all here to give our free time voluntary to help people like yourself to the best of our abilities. What JandM asked was a very reasonable question so more could be found out about your situation and to give you the best advice we can. Many people have other skills that they can use. We do not know this about you unless we ask. I have several qualifications but I make the most money out of being a self taught musician with no training at all.
So it was a very good question to ask and my good advice to you is to be a bit less off with your replies as we try our best (JandM in particular) to help everyone

I wish you all the best in finding the right situation for you

I appreciate all replies and questions. It's just a complete shock for me to find out that experience is a necessity to get any job, whether it requires a degree or not.
I've been looking for jobs in Australia and literally everyone asks for experience which I don't have. I expected to be embraced with open arms and have people throwing job opportunities at me.
But it's very tough to get any consistent job outside of my own country. I am frustrated because of the situation, not because I don't like JandM or anyone else in this thread.

You could call me self centered or arrogant. I don't think I am being arrogant when I say that I did not go to college to end up picking pineapples.
I want to pursue a serious career abroad and make the money I am expected to make with my degree.
I know that many students have these debts. If all of them have to work min wage jobs abroad to get rid of them, I really wonder how long this will take and why they started studying in the first place

[LeavingEurope]

I'm just completely confused as to why you are in Australia? Or even thinking of New Zealand? It sounds to be like your #1 priority at the moment is to make money. So going back to Europe and using your degree would then make the most sense, right? Perhaps living with family while you save money for your exam? Both Australia and NZ are great places to live (as are many countries in Europe I'm sure), but you probably won't enjoy it here if you are working an unskilled job living in student-type flat shares, when you really would rather be using the skills you were trained for and earning more.

Best of luck to you.

I am traveling because I want to gain life experience and working experience in different countries. I know the English language and therefore I want to figure out Australia, NZ and Canada. NZ because it's beautiful and the other 2 because they offer good prospects for physiotherapists in case I get approved. The process of getting approved is a pain in the *** though. Being a foreigner is a lot tougher than I thought and forces you to do jobs that you are overqualified for until you are approved, which may take a year.
I would like to develop my skills, but not in my own country and not while I am living at home with parents

[girlwithanewf]

Ah, the benefits of mutual recognition of qualifications inside the European Union....
I have no idea what it takes to be approved as a physiotherapist in NZ or Australia, but if it takes a year, that is just how it is. If in the meantime you can earn $4000 Australian dollars doing menial tasks, fantastic. Where's the end of the queue?

I disagree that moving abroad straight after graduation is best, yes, it is easier if you don't have to think about buying and selling houses and finding a good school for your children, but there are many people on this forum who have proved that you can move abroad at any age (subject to immigration requirements and age limits) and be successful. In fact, it is often the people with significant experience in their careers who are the ones in demand.
It looks as if you have two choices: go back to the EU and get some experience and then emigrate. Or wait it out here until you get approved. Either way, good luck.

[JandM]

It's just a complete shock for me to find out that experience is a necessity to get any job, whether it requires a degree or not.
I've been looking for jobs in Australia and literally everyone asks for experience which I don't have. I expected to be embraced with open arms and have people throwing job opportunities at me.

This is sad, as it sounds as if it is the first time cold reality has shoved itself in your face. Sorry to have to tell you, this need to prove your worth will meet you at all levels, everywhere, all through your life. We ALL have to swallow our pride and jump through hoops. Please read what follows calmly.

Many people who need a job, not just you, know that they're good. An employer isn't a philanthropist so he wants a sure yield first time off. How's he supposed to tell, from all the applicants he's never seen before, ALL telling him, 'Take me - I'm the best,' which one to have? He would like to be sure he's not going to waste time on someone who will let him down. That's why he wants to hear from another businessman who has paid wages to this worker before, that Mr X turned up on time, week in week out, was decent to co-workers and customers, didn't have unexplained absences, wasn't a clumsy idiot, and didn't skive or pass items from stock under the counter for free to his mates. That's the kind of thing that is in the mind of someone who wants you to have a work-record he can check up on, to minimize his risk.

'But I've got a degree...'

Sad to say, having a degree is no guarantee to the rest of the world of anything but that the applicant managed to study and pass exams, within an environment focused on getting him, the student, through the system. The world of work has wholly other priorities, and will be focused on the needs of the business. Yes, the new graduate applicant has knowledge, and maybe skills, but can he, and will he (will he be able to) apply them for the employer's purposes? Risk for a boss here, too, which he would rather cut down by hearing from a previous employer.

I might as well give you the other bad news about holding degrees. There are many bosses out there with basic jobs to offer who don't WANT to employ graduates. Either they've previously had mouthy knowalls who annoyed everybody by telling them how to do their job (which is a bad idea even when you can see with half an eye that the whole system could be improved by x, y and z - it's like going into someone else's house as a visitor, and rearranging their furniture while they're out of the room), or maybe they're insecure, and would rather not have an intellectual around. Go for a job for someone like this, and they may actually give you feedback, like 'I'm sure you could do this work, but you're overqualified. You'd be bored. You'd no sooner learn the ropes than you'd leave to find something more interesting.' We, the graduate, may well wish that they'd let US worry about coping with boredom, as our higher priority is to get the money to keep ourself fed, but that's not the point for them.

Yes, for you, it's a Catch-22 situation. And it's painful. Really, the only way to get a start is to keep trying, with self-confidence, because you KNOW you have worth, but demonstrating humility, because you are dependent on other people, who don't owe you a thing. 'Let me come in for a week for nothing, to show you I can do the job well' is an approach that has worked for some. It CAN lead to an actual paid position, but even if it doesn't, if you do well, it can get you a reference to show at the next place you try. Or, if you take part in some activities (e.g. hobbies, sports) where you can meet locals on neutral ground, personal acquaintance can help you to an opening. If you've, say, played on a team alongside someone for several weeks, and shown yourself to be a decent human being, that person is more likely to pass the word if they hear their neighbour is looking for a man to (whatever). I KNOW New Zealand works very much on the principle of knowing someone who knows someone, and I hear that Australia is somewhat the same. Small populations have more connections than we Europeans are used to, and good news about you (or bad) will follow you easily.

[LeavingEurope]

This is sad, as it sounds as if it is the first time cold reality has shoved itself in your face. Sorry to have to tell you, this need to prove your worth will meet you at all levels, everywhere, all through your life. We ALL have to swallow our pride and jump through hoops. Please read what follows calmly.

Many people who need a job, not just you, know that they're good. An employer isn't a philanthropist so he wants a sure yield first time off. How's he supposed to tell, from all the applicants he's never seen before, ALL telling him, 'Take me - I'm the best,' which one to have? He would like to be sure he's not going to waste time on someone who will let him down. That's why he wants to hear from another businessman who has paid wages to this worker before, that Mr X turned up on time, week in week out, was decent to co-workers and customers, didn't have unexplained absences, wasn't a clumsy idiot, and didn't skive or pass items from stock under the counter for free to his mates. That's the kind of thing that is in the mind of someone who wants you to have a work-record he can check up on, to minimize his risk.

'But I've got a degree...'

Sad to say, having a degree is no guarantee to the rest of the world of anything but that the applicant managed to study and pass exams, within an environment focused on getting him, the student, through the system. The world of work has wholly other priorities, and will be focused on the needs of the business. Yes, the new graduate applicant has knowledge, and maybe skills, but can he, and will he (will he be able to) apply them for the employer's purposes? Risk for a boss here, too, which he would rather cut down by hearing from a previous employer.

I might as well give you the other bad news about holding degrees. There are many bosses out there with basic jobs to offer who don't WANT to employ graduates. Either they've previously had mouthy knowalls who annoyed everybody by telling them how to do their job (which is a bad idea even when you can see with half an eye that the whole system could be improved by x, y and z - it's like going into someone else's house as a visitor, and rearranging their furniture while they're out of the room), or maybe they're insecure, and would rather not have an intellectual around. Go for a job for someone like this, and they may actually give you feedback, like 'I'm sure you could do this work, but you're overqualified. You'd be bored. You'd no sooner learn the ropes than you'd leave to find something more interesting.' We, the graduate, may well wish that they'd let US worry about coping with boredom, as our higher priority is to get the money to keep ourself fed, but that's not the point for them.

Yes, for you, it's a Catch-22 situation. And it's painful. Really, the only way to get a start is to keep trying, with self-confidence, because you KNOW you have worth, but demonstrating humility, because you are dependent on other people, who don't owe you a thing. 'Let me come in for a week for nothing, to show you I can do the job well' is an approach that has worked for some. It CAN lead to an actual paid position, but even if it doesn't, if you do well, it can get you a reference to show at the next place you try. Or, if you take part in some activities (e.g. hobbies, sports) where you can meet locals on neutral ground, personal acquaintance can help you to an opening. If you've, say, played on a team alongside someone for several weeks, and shown yourself to be a decent human being, that person is more likely to pass the word if they hear their neighbour is looking for a man to (whatever). I KNOW New Zealand works very much on the principle of knowing someone who knows someone, and I hear that Australia is somewhat the same. Small populations have more connections than we Europeans are used to, and good news about you (or bad) will follow you easily.

Well thanks for the honesty. It's a painful truth.
Knowing this I will not try my chances in New Zealand. I'll extend my VISA here, do some random jobs, save money and pursue a career in Europe.
People always tell me that it's tough to get employed as a foreigner but I never pictured it would be like this.
It is literally about knowing someone who knows someone. In Perth I met a girl that got a mining job without any experience because her boyfriend is an electrician in the mines.
She has no qualifications and the wages start around $30/hour.

I'll probably travel in New Zealand and have some fun but I don't work for a net wage of approx imately $9/hour after tax. I can make this money playing online poker as a hobby.
Being a foreigner is tougher than I thought. I'll stick to working holiday employment and head back to Europe next year.
The good part is that I don't have any debts

[JandM]

People always tell me that it's tough to get employed as a foreigner

Yes, I reckon that's true, wherever you go. However, remember what I've said when you're back in Europe, because much of what is above, I have also experienced in my own country too, trying to get a job within careers I hold qualifications for. Also, I hope you never have to find out, but there is actually no bottom limit to what any of us will work for, if the alternative is to see our family out on the street - there are no certainties in this life, and even a professional can get a string of bad luck.