Income and Housing (OZ vs NZ)

[GeorgeM]

Oz probably could take more migrants - hence the points rise. Nz struggles to fill it's places - hence the points drop.

When we applied in 2001 you only needed (I think) about 50 points.

I'm sure that you will agree that this means that NZ has had to INCREASE its points requirement radically over the past couple of years to keep hoards of migrants from applying to live in Godzone.

Of course the points system in those days was very different from what it is today. The current system is relatively new and was adopted (I believe) alongside new rules on the standard of English required from prospective new kiwis, so a moving of the bar upwards and downwards whilst the impact of the various aspects of the new system is felt is hardly unexpected. All it shows is that when they changed the rules they asked for more pears than you used to have to have lemons to get in. But they misjudged the value of a pear so are having to change that number to get it right. If anyone fiddles with the immigration rules post-election this will also necessitate an adjustment in the number of pears you have to have - or they may scrap pears altogether and ask you how many peaches you can bring to the party.

All of which has no bearing on the number of apples the aussies need before they will let people into the West Island. Or on whether in the short term they decide that their apples are under- or over-valued.

[Sunshine20]

Thanks for your comments but I think they are incorrect. NZ without doubt lowered the Skilled Migrants Points due to the limited number of people with high points who were applying. Oz raised theirs because they had a very large volume of people applying and could afford to be more selective. Likewise the number of Nz PR holders jumping the ditch as soon as they had NZ PR caused the Australians to remove the right of NZ PR holders to work in Oz. This is still in place the other way round due to the small number of OZ PR holders choosing to go to NZ. NZ PR has, on the whole, been easier to obtain than Australian PR and that was why for many it was a 'back door to Oz' - hence NZ PR rights being lost in OZ and the increase of NZ citizenship to 5 years.

I appreciate you prefer NZ but I am just pointing out the majority do not and I believe their is some merit in preference for Oz.

[GeorgeM]

As you wish.

But you're completely missing the point that if NZ only wanted to attract 14,000 people pa it could raise the bar. Or if Aus wanted to increase its incomers to 200,000 it would have to lower its requirements.

And you also ignore my comments on the relative availability of 'Head Office' type jobs in the two countries as a result of centralisation/regionalisation. In my time in NZ I have known a number of people who have gone to Oz, and they all went for better opportunities. If they could have had the NZ lifestyle plus the opportunites they would have preferred to have stayed in NZ - they don't like the high cost of living (esp housing) in Oz, and hate the traffic problems in Syd / Mel (although coming from Chch they would probably feel the same about Akl in this regard!).

As a family we will soon apply for NZ citizenship, and one of the reasons for doing so (as I have no immediate plans to stand for parliament ) will be to open up loads more possibilities for employment, especially for my children. I'm v. happy in Chch and in my job, but you never know what is around the corner and I know that if I was in the position of looking for a new job I would be lucky to find something at the same level in Chch. If I have to move it would be good to be able to consider the large Australian cities as well as Akl and Wlg.
I must admit that I find it a bit tedious when people find it sooooooooo important to reinforce their own choices by knocking those of other people. Aus is a good place to live for many. So is NZ. So is the UK and the US. People have a different mix of needs and preferences and this will result in different people coming up with different definitions of what they require. And in the final analysis most of us have to work to live so the ability to get work is crucial to the decision we make in the end.

[ENZ]

New Zealand lowered the SMC points requirement mainly because it introduced "equivalent labour market provisions" into immigration policy.

The effect of this was that skilled people from China and India (and many other developing countries) could immigrate to NZ only if they got a job offer first. The numbers of Chinese and Indian migrants to NZ has fallen dramatically and, as a result, the points requirement has been lowered.

The result of "equivalent labour market" measures was to make it easier (lower points) for people from favoured countries (such as the UK, USA, Canada, European Union, Japan, South Africa, Malaysia, Philippines, etc) to get into NZ.

The Minister responsible for the "equivalent labour market provisions" has since said she regrets introducing them. (Lianne Dalziel).

Australia, on the other hand, is positively promoting itself as a destination for skilled migrants from India and is holding immigration expos in India this year. This means that Australia is drawing on a much larger potential pool of migrants.

[Sunshine20]

As you wish GeorgeM.

But people are not solely attracted to Oz for improved work opportunities as you seem to think. There are many other factors which to many equate to a better lifestyle in Oz than NZ - hence the larger volume of migrants attracteed their, the removal of NZ PR rights etc etc.

I was simply trying to point out that for a larger proportion of migrants (Brits included) Oz is a more popular destination and potential migrants might want to investigate the reason for this before heading off to NZ.

I agree the discussion is tedious - you prefer Nz, my preference is Australia.

[veronica]

Having lived in both countries I can honestly say there isn't a lot to choose between them. they both have a lot going for them and they both have drawbacks.

One of the things against Oz is the hot weather. while it sounds lovely for a holiday just wait until you have to work and live in it month after month. We lived on both the east (humid) and west (hot and dry) coast. I would normally say that one of the drawbacks in NZ is the winters and the housing but this past winter hasn't played along with that. The other down side to Oz is the amount of creepy crawlies. while they aren't as bad as imagination makes them they are there, and I am not just talking about the poisonous ones. Common or garden ones like coackroaches are a pest mainly because of the hot weather.
If you are going to live in a big city it won't matter what country you choose to live in, you could just as well be in London. All cities have the same drawbacks.

The pace of life is slower in NZ and this is what a lot of people come out here for. property is a lot cheaper here to and this has to be weighed up against the higher wages in OZ. is it less likely that people would be able to afford to buy there ( always assuming that is a priority)

The only thing I would like to point out that if you choose to go there, thats great, but the same with people who are leaving the UK. You dont have to knock the place you are leaving to justify where you are going to.

[Debbie P.]

This is a really interesting discussion.

I admit that we looked at OZ before NZ, but one thing that put us off was their attitudes about age. Talk about ageist! My hubby's a teacher and we spoke to an OZ education agency rep at an Expo 2 years' ago - he was 36 at the time and she said he was 'too old' to consider moving to Australia because few schools would want to offer him a job (WHAT???). The look of contempt she gave him was slightly unnerving too. She was about 20 herself, so I guess we looked like a couple of old fogies to her...

At the same Expo, we spoke to a really friendly guy from NZ immigration, who did an on-the-spot assessment and said we'd get into the country within 3 months if we wanted to. In fact, it wasn't convenient for us to do so at that time, but now we're able to move, we wouldn't even consider OZ - especially if people like the girl at that Expo are living there.

OK, we picked a bad ambassador on that occasion, but it really put us off.

Debbie

[GeorgeM]

...he was 36 at the time and she said he was 'too old' to consider moving to Australia because few schools would want to offer him a job...

...guy from NZ immigration, who did an on-the-spot assessment and said we'd get into the country within 3 months if we wanted to...

Some would say that this just goes to show how desparate NZ is to attract people whilst Oz can afford to be real choosy!

As always readers make up their own minds as to which is the better deal.

[Sunshine20]

[QUOTE=GeorgeM]Some would say that this just goes to show how desparate NZ is to attract people whilst Oz can afford to be real choosy!
QUOTE]

Some might even say that it just shows how warm and cuddly NZ is!