Partnership Work Visa: request from Immigration Officer for more proof of relationship

[davnz]

A little background on us:

We're both in our mid/late twenties. I'm a NZ Citizen (lived here in NZ my entire life, with a degree from UoA), she is from China and has been studying science here in Auckland.

We've been together in a relationship for nearly three years, just a few weeks ago we moved in together to my place and I'm now in the process of trying to get her a Partner Sponsored Work Visa.

1. 2 bank account statements [from her bank]
2. Letter from your partner
3. 8 letters of support
4. Photo copies of photos
5. Letter from [my tertiary education provider, which simply was the most "official" recent letter I had to my address available]
6. Facebook printouts

What they don't mention is we also included screenshots of my email account showing emails between us going back years, and I used to uploaded my txts automatically to the cloud so I included a snapshot of that showing heaps of txts between us. So I've emailed back already telling them they've overlooked those two points.

But I fear this won't be enough, as they said:

The documents you have provided does not:

1. establish the duration of your relationship;

2. There is limited evidence of financial interdependence or any arrangements for financial support;

3. There is no supporting evidence of common ownership, use and acquisition of property;

4. We are not able to ascertain that there is any commitment to a shared life;

5. Whether there is any performance of common household duties and

6. There is no evidence to demonstrate the reputation and public aspects of your relationship.

7. There is very limited evidence of the existence, nature, and extent of common residence.

http://www.immigration.govt.nz/opsmanual/30880.htm

1) I would've thought the emails/txts, the date stamps on all the photos, and the letters of support would've been sufficient? What more could I do?

2) dunno what I can do about this, we buy little things for each other now and then such as recently I gave her a jewelry trinket and she got me a shirt. Maybe the two receipts from when we went shopping at Countdown together yesterday could be used as an example, we go shopping together but each buy the food and we share it at home. I guess I could also point out it was with my credit card that the application fee for the visa was paid with.

3) ummm.... we both carried a free sofa home together a few months ago, I guess we've now got shared ownership of that? lol, but seriously.... we're both students in our 20's and are hardly asset rich! So it isn't as if we could have joint ownership of anything (our biggest assets would be our cameras, we're both keen amatuer photographers, plus our computers/cellphones/clothes. Oh, and my bicycles)

4) wasn't everything as a whole of what we've provided already enough??? What more can we do?

5) She cooks, I eat! She cleans, I mess the house up! ha, I jest I jest! But seriously, how can I possibly provide proof for this?

6) errrr.... ahhh, what about those photos of us in public and the letters from our friends? Surely that is exactly what is required for this point.

7) I suppose this was always going to be a problem, as she only moved in with me a handful of weeks ago. But for the Partnership Sponsored Work Visa there doesn't need to be any length of time living together, only that we are living together right now? There was for her the bank statements and for me the letter from my education provider, perhaps I could include another more recent letter that has arrived during the application process.



Any advice or similar experiences you can share is appreciated :-)

[JandM]

It's probably the length of time that is the biggest issue here - nothing is SAID in the instructions, but something around three months of proof of live-in relationship seems to be the tipping point in practice.

Keep pushing your case by arguing and giving more evidence, because all the time that passes, you are clocking up more live-in time. Now you know the sort of thing they are going to be picking up on, you can collect specifically that.

Okay, they are nitpicking and apparently being dismissive of what you have sent already, but don't treat this lightly yourself - give reasoned replies to every point, because everything you send is MORE evidence mounting up. Some thoughts you might want to pick up...

1. Point out the dates on everything you have sent. The thing about the dates is that they want to see approximately when the relationship began, and circumstantial evidence that it was still in being at frequent intervals after that (say, every month at least). However, for this visa, 'relationship' as far as INZ is concerned can only be counted once the live-in part began, and the years of emotional relationship before that, while showing a connection was already there, won't have as much as weight as the other evidence, unfortunately.

2. Yes, you need to show that you are EACH buying things that you BOTH will use, as well as buying anything for each other, and, if you can, you need to get evidence of this from the minute you moved in together. What is on both your bank statements, credit card statements, etc.? More copies, and highlight anything you can show in this light.

3. Explain that. When one person moves into what was already the other one's home, there won't be a lot of new buys to make, but only gradual adaptation. Tell about the sofa! Haven't you bought any small things, even, as she's making her mark there? - kitchen gadgetry, or even pictures and ornaments, as she's settled in?

4. Have you done anything like naming each other as beneficiary on life insurance? Are you down as each other's next of kin, e.g. on doctor's records or at work? Are you named drivers on each other's car insurance? It seems that something known to a public body carries more weight.

5. Of course you can't prove it, but they can't disprove it, either. Keep on saying that it IS so, and put together a listing of a so-called 'typical' week of who did what chores. Maybe your neighbour would testify that Mr X takes out the rubbish and Miss Y hangs out the laundry for both. (I know, daft, isn't it? But if that's what it takes...) Incidentally, it has been known in cases such as your for INZ to make a house call, to check that both parties actually ARE in residence there, living as they've said they do. They've also done separate interviews with each partner, to see if their testimony matches up, both about how they met, what they know about each other's childhood, background, likes and dislikes, and shared past, as well as details of their life in common. This can actually be rather a good thing for genuine partners. (INZ are trying to catch out people where the NZ partner is being paid to lie for the sake of getting the foreign partner their visa.)

6. Yes, you can say that. More weighty evidence on this can be formal invitations to both of you as a couple, e.g. to a wedding. And have you also put in (this overlaps with point 7) mail addressed to each of you at your shared address, from organizations such as service providers, banks, the Inland Revenue?

7. No 'perhaps' about it - get every scrap of official paperwork you can, and think of ways to generate more, coming through the mail, and send it off to INZ.

Good luck.

[davnz]

It's probably the length of time that is the biggest issue here - nothing is SAID in the instructions, but something around three months of proof of live-in relationship seems to be the tipping point in practice.

We're about half that length of time.

Keep pushing your case by arguing and giving more evidence, because all the time that passes, you are clocking up more live-in time. Now you know the sort of thing they are going to be picking up on, you can collect specifically that.

They've said the deadline is 10th of May, but I suppose that might just be the deadline to reply by? And if we reply before then with even more evidence they could reply back requesting extra info with a new later deadline to reply by?

1. Point out the dates on everything you have sent. The thing about the dates is that they want to see approximately when the relationship began, and circumstantial evidence that it was still in being at frequent intervals after that (say, every month at least). However, for this visa, 'relationship' as far as INZ is concerned can only be counted once the live-in part began, and the years of emotional relationship before that, while showing a connection was already there, won't have as much as weight as the other evidence, unfortunately.

Whoa, "every month at least"?? We're hardly the most sociable and outgoing couple, and neither have we been thinking about gathering any "evidence" of us together, so I'd probably really struggle to dig up a photo of us together from every single month (plus even when we say go out together to snap photos, we're not doing it of each other together but of what we see around us!).

Anyway, it seems the past history of our years together (before moving) don't seem to count for that much? Unfortunately.

2. Yes, you need to show that you are EACH buying things that you BOTH will use, as well as buying anything for each other, and, if you can, you need to get evidence of this from the minute you moved in together. What is on both your bank statements, credit card statements, etc.? More copies, and highlight anything you can show in this light.

I guess then that just receipts wouldn't be enough.

3. Explain that. When one person moves into what was already the other one's home, there won't be a lot of new buys to make, but only gradual adaptation. Tell about the sofa! Haven't you bought any small things, even, as she's making her mark there? - kitchen gadgetry, or even pictures and ornaments, as she's settled in?

Not really, as I have everything I need here myself. Although a couple of years ago she purchased a kitchen knife for me (the most awesome one I've ever seen!), but that is prior to her moving in.

4. Have you done anything like naming each other as beneficiary on life insurance? Are you down as each other's next of kin, e.g. on doctor's records or at work? Are you named drivers on each other's car insurance? It seems that something known to a public body carries more weight.

We're both young, not thinking about life insurance now! (although while replying to this together she tells me to my surprise she has life insurance back in China! heh, we are learning something new every day and admittedly I had life insurance as part of the package with my first job after graduation but that is long gone)

Neither of us has a car and thus there is no car insurance.

Didn't think about that "next of kin" at the doctors idea, I would've assumed we'd have to be married to put each other down as "next of kin".

5. Of course you can't prove it, but they can't disprove it, either. Keep on saying that it IS so, and put together a listing of a so-called 'typical' week of who did what chores. Maybe your neighbour would testify that Mr X takes out the rubbish and Miss Y hangs out the laundry for both. (I know, daft, isn't it? But if that's what it takes...) Incidentally, it has been known in cases such as your for INZ to make a house call, to check that both parties actually ARE in residence there, living as they've said they do. They've also done separate interviews with each partner, to see if their testimony matches up, both about how they met, what they know about each other's childhood, background, likes and dislikes, and shared past, as well as details of their life in common. This can actually be rather a good thing for genuine partners. (INZ are trying to catch out people where the NZ partner is being paid to lie for the sake of getting the foreign partner their visa.)

I guess the fact we simply haven't stated explicitly anything about how life happens around the house is a point against us, even though they'd no way of proving our disproving our statement. Bureaucracy is weird.

6. Yes, you can say that. More weighty evidence on this can be formal invitations to both of you as a couple, e.g. to a wedding. And have you also put in (this overlaps with point 7) mail addressed to each of you at your shared address, from organizations such as service providers, banks, the Inland Revenue?

No, bank mail probably is the closest/only such mail we'd have got.

7. No 'perhaps' about it - get every scrap of official paperwork you can, and think of ways to generate more, coming through the mail, and send it off to INZ.

Maybe if we rob a bank together and get caught? That would be sure to generate mountains of *official* paperwork!

Good luck.

Thanks!

[Luv2fly]

Hi there,

You might want to consider opening a bank account together in both your names. That shows financial interdepence. Go to the library or any club together and open an account there with both your names on it. If you have a car, get the name of your partner on the document so that he or she is able to drive it. Any document with both your names on it will do. Utility bill, phone bill etc. Did you have skype contact? You are able to get that into a format to print that out as well if you saved the history of it on your computer. Have yourself a letter from the local doctor/medical centre that shows you are both at the same address. If you have not done that, make sure that you do That is basically all you can do in the short amount of time you have to answer them.

Good luck!

[eternalkiwi]

In my application I covered a many of these points INZ raised in my letter of support (including many of the things JandM mentioned) and people who wrote letters of support also included points similar to these (where possible) to reinforce these facts to INZ. Possibly the issue INZ have is that the way they interpret the information has not 'ticked off' what they are looking for, (even though the facts may be there, INZ have not tied them together sufficiently) so maybe in your response you could help them see what the evidence you have provided covers (proves) what the are looking for and add as much of what JandM mentioned as you can.

If your letter can identify exactly where/when you met, how you developed your relationship and when you progressed from bf/gf to living together as partners etc.
Though your photos may show you both at social events etc, I suspect for INZ that does not prove you are together as partners (or people see you as a couple) rather than just dating etc (points 4 & 6).

In my letter I talked about when I met my partner, and when she moved in with me. Support letters were from people who knew either of us when we met and also people who knew us at the time of application, (like a flatmate and close friends, parents etc), most knew us throughout our relationship.

As my house was mostly furnished, she did not bring much (she was also a student), though we did mention what was hers and explained the situation in my letter. For the same reason most bills were also in my name (to a PO Box), though we set up a joint bank account and each put in half of our share of the rent, (a small sign that some level of financial interdependence existed). She also changed her car registration & insurance to our house and had a mail redirection. Friends sent letters addressed to both of us at our address. My support letter and letters from friends or flatmates also included general or specific points about household tasks being shared.

Being together longer would help prove your case, though if you have a range of evidence and are clear on as many of the key points they are looking for, you still have a chance of getting a sponsored work visa approved, though as JandM mentioned they do need to see that you have a stable and committed relationship as partners. Hopefully if you come close to proving this to INZ they will at least issue an open work visa for a shorter term.

Shawn

[JandM]

They've said the deadline is 10th of May, but I suppose that might just be the deadline to reply by? And if we reply before then with even more evidence they could reply back requesting extra info with a new later deadline to reply by?

Yes, they want to see something back from you by then, or they will just decide the case on what they have to hand - which is what you DON'T want, since they seem to be underwhelmed. And yes, again, that the more you send, the more there is for them to work on, so time keeps going by *, which can only be a good thing as you clock up more time and make sure it's all recorded in INZ-friendly form.

I guess then that just receipts wouldn't be enough.

Receipts would be better than nothing, but they don't so easily show on their own WHO bought it. If you can tie a receipt to an item on a bank or credit card statement, that's the best way.

Didn't think about that "next of kin" at the doctors idea, I would've assumed we'd have to be married to put each other down as "next of kin".

I don't think so, not these days. It's more a means of stating formally who you want to be consulted or informed if you're very ill or hurt. (The same for your employers.) You can get them to record it in those terms, even if you (or they) are wary of the actual next-of-kin format. It's no bad thing to have done, regardless of INZ, because I've known a situation where somebody broke a leg and was knocked out, and the hospital went with what they were told from his work, contacting his parents (stated next of kin) 200 miles away, while meantime his partner was going frantic wondering where the heck he'd got to.

I guess the fact we simply haven't stated explicitly anything about how life happens around the house is a point against us, even though they'd no way of proving our disproving our statement. Bureaucracy is weird.

Yes, exactly. They have to tick the boxes, and you need to make it as easy for them as possible. Maybe you could get some friends or family who have visited to write you some more letters, with things like 'she made the main course and he made the dessert', 'I stayed over, and he made up the couch for me while she was getting a meal' - anything, really, to give a solid piece of evidence on that point, of your domestic arrangements.

No, bank mail probably is the closest/only such mail we'd have got.

Okay, so get on and get some more - but probably not by getting arrested!


*In case you didn't realize, everything at INZ works by managed queues, according to the date order. Each Case Officer has a certain workload - a number of cases that are theirs to deal with. When a case is assigned to a CO, it will join the back of the queue for the CO's attention, as s/he takes the top file, does what s/he can actively do, puts that file to the back, works everything s/he can on that case, goes to the next, and so on. So the cases go round and round, taking turns to be dealt with as they come to the front of the queue. Anything fresh that comes in from you will be added to the file, but it won't be looked at till it is its turn again. It's a good thing if, each time your file comes up, there is something new the CO has to take notice of (as long as it's truly relevant).

[davnz]

Thanks for the replies :-)

We're just sent off the email now to the person's email address supplied.

Is that the appropriate way to respond? Or should we be mailing it too as well to somewhere? Or is there a generic email address we should email as well as that person's email address? (as he hasn't replied back to the message I sent back immediately to him when I first got the email from him a week ago, although I suppose maybe we're not "top of the stack" yet??? Although was a pretty simple and short email I sent)

[JandM]

as he hasn't replied back to the message I sent back immediately to him when I first got the email from him a week ago, although I suppose maybe we're not "top of the stack" yet??? Although was a pretty simple and short email I sent

This is normal. COs don't do 'empty' emails, as their priority job is to advance the work on cases. Imagine if he took the time to do ten messages of 'Dear Mr So-and-So, I have received your email,' or 'Dear Miss X, I have received nothing further about your case so I have nothing to tell you right now,' when YOUR file was next in line, and might actually be getting the visa issued when he turned to it, and you'll see the logic, even though it doesn't feel polite, or like a business.

When you replied today, did you have any physical evidence that you were sending copies of in the email?

[davnz]

Yup, I used the scanner on a handful of items.

[JandM]

The thinking behind the question was that you might need to or want to send physical evidence by post. But it's not essential, as, if the CO wants to see originals, they can always ask.