View Poll Results: Is Immigration policy for IELTS Fair ?

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  • Yes

    29 87.88%
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    4 12.12%
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Thread: You Speak no ENGLISH w/o IELTS ... Help !

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2013
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    India
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    Default You Speak no ENGLISH w/o IELTS ... Help !

    Hi,


    My dad's residence visa got declined twice due to unable to meet English requirement under skill migrant category, Despite of having a skill job in New Zealand his visa got declined as his IELTS score was 5.0 of required 6.5.

    Again i respect the fact Immigration needs English proficiency but how could this be fair for people from non English speaking country and that too for those who couldn't get English language Education due to lack of availability of schools in which student can learn English.

    I my self have given IELTS and scored 6.5 that too studying English as my first language.
    The level of IELTS testing is notably so confusing and tricky that even if u know how everything u end up getting less score as they are made to confuse students nothing else. I agree that this trick is to find the level of intelligence of a person but again IELTS fails to understand that they are testing a persons English not their intelligence , and we all know we can always have an IQ test for it not IELTS.

    I bet, not all English native person ( heaps up there) can pass the damn test and score 7 band.


    (SM5.1 Aim and intent

    Principal applicants under the Skilled Migrant Category are required to meet a minimum standard of English to enable successful settlement and skilled employment in New Zealand.
    Non-principal applicants (partners and dependent children aged 16 and older who are included in Skilled Migrant Category applications) are required to meet a minimum standard of English or to pre-purchase ESOL training, to enable successful settlement in New Zealand.)


    Does the successful settlement for past 10 yrs with the current job offer in skill category is not enough to prove that the person is a speaker of English ?






    SM5.5 Minimum standard of English language for principal applicants


    d. In any case, an immigration officer may require an applicant to provide an IELTS certificate in terms of paragraph (b). In such cases, the IELTS certificate will be used to determine whether the principal applicant* meets the minimum standard of English.



    Isn't the above statement of Immigration sounds that Immigration had tried to hold all the aces on their hand in the game to ace out the applicant and leave them restless and end their love dream they once saw within our own beautiful New Zealand.

    Awaiting for all your suggestions and Comments .
    Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    37,822

    Default

    I can understand your frustration on your father's behalf.

    Having taught languages, though, I have another perspective. Unfortunately, it's true that some people have a nervous reaction to being in an exam situation, and never show up at their best. Maybe this is your father's case. Or has he not had any lessons? If he doesn't live near any language schools in NZ, there are courses that can be taken online.

    The level of IELTS testing is notably so confusing and tricky that even if u know how everything u end up getting less score as they are made to confuse students nothing else. I agree that this trick is to find the level of intelligence of a person but again IELTS fails to understand that they are testing a persons English not their intelligence , and we all know we can always have an IQ test for it not IELTS.
    It's not true that IELTS is meant to confuse, and it's not a test of intelligence. It is based on the way English is taught as a foreign language, which is VERY different from what you get in 'English' lessons as a child being educated in English. Many native English speakers make the mistake of thinking IELTS is going to be easy (because they know they speak English) then find the test very difficult because they meet questions of a kind they have never seen before, and are asked to think about their own language in a totally different way from anything they've ever done. Anyone doing IELTS - and quite a few native English-speakers have to do this for registration in particular professions - really needs to do some preparation with online practice, past papers, and even take lessons, to be sure of getting a high enough level at their first try.

    Leaving aside the nature of IELTS exams, did your father try stating his employment in an English-speaking firm as evidence of his English, when he first applied for Residence?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Blenheim
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    1,620

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by djalhayaa View Post
    Hi,


    My dad's residence visa got declined twice due to unable to meet English requirement under skill migrant category, Despite of having a skill job in New Zealand his visa got declined as his IELTS score was 5.0 of required 6.5.

    Again i respect the fact Immigration needs English proficiency but how could this be fair for people from non English speaking country and that too for those who couldn't get English language Education due to lack of availability of schools in which student can learn English.

    I my self have given IELTS and scored 6.5 that too studying English as my first language.
    The level of IELTS testing is notably so confusing and tricky that even if u know how everything u end up getting less score as they are made to confuse students nothing else. I agree that this trick is to find the level of intelligence of a person but again IELTS fails to understand that they are testing a persons English not their intelligence , and we all know we can always have an IQ test for it not IELTS.

    I bet, not all English native person ( heaps up there) can pass the damn test and score 7 band.


    (SM5.1 Aim and intent

    Principal applicants under the Skilled Migrant Category are required to meet a minimum standard of English to enable successful settlement and skilled employment in New Zealand.
    Non-principal applicants (partners and dependent children aged 16 and older who are included in Skilled Migrant Category applications) are required to meet a minimum standard of English or to pre-purchase ESOL training, to enable successful settlement in New Zealand.)


    Does the successful settlement for past 10 yrs with the current job offer in skill category is not enough to prove that the person is a speaker of English ?






    SM5.5 Minimum standard of English language for principal applicants


    d. In any case, an immigration officer may require an applicant to provide an IELTS certificate in terms of paragraph (b). In such cases, the IELTS certificate will be used to determine whether the principal applicant* meets the minimum standard of English.



    Isn't the above statement of Immigration sounds that Immigration had tried to hold all the aces on their hand in the game to ace out the applicant and leave them restless and end their love dream they once saw within our own beautiful New Zealand.

    Awaiting for all your suggestions and Comments .
    Thanks
    I am sorry to hear of your dad's problems, and I can understand that you are frustrated, but I personally don't find it unfair that someone who intends to live in whatever country it is has to proof the ability of speaking that language.
    And you need to find some way to compare those abilities. I am not from an English speaking country, by the way, and did have to sit the IELTS, too. I don't think that it was confusing, you can practice the system quite well, and I don't think it is intended to see how intelligent a person is, or to give power to the CO.
    As far as I know, even native English speakers need to pass an IELTS academic exam if they register as nurses.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    China
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    Default

    I am sorry to hear about this story, but I can hardly find a more efficient and fairer way to have most applicants prove their proficiency in interpersonal communication as well as potential success of settlement in an English-speaking country.

    How long have your father been working for the employer? Though immigration officers are entitled to request applicants prove their English capabilities based on the IELTS scores, applicants who have studied or worked in a proven English-speaking environment (an accumulative two years at the minimum, in general terms) are able to be exempted from submitting their IELTS result sheets.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    Ōtepoti, Aotearoa
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    I think in general the policy is not absolutely fair but for different reasons!

    I deem it fair indeed to check people's language ability when they want to settle here. However as we have three official languages the check ought not be limited to just one of these - albeit being the most common one.
    In addition, especially for SMC everyone ought to be checked including all native English speakers (when limiting to English) I would think.

    Anyway in the concrete - and limited context of your question I think the policy is fair! (Thus my vote with 'Yes'.)

  6. #6
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    Jul 2011
    Location
    India > Auckland
    Posts
    393

    Default

    I hope things work out for you. With some preparation, your father can easily get the required IELTS score.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Blenheim
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralf-nz View Post
    I think in general the policy is not absolutely fair but for different reasons!

    I deem it fair indeed to check people's language ability when they want to settle here. However as we have three official languages the check ought not be limited to just one of these - albeit being the most common one.
    In addition, especially for SMC everyone ought to be checked including all native English speakers (when limiting to English) I would think.

    Anyway in the concrete - and limited context of your question I think the policy is fair! (Thus my vote with 'Yes'.)
    There would probably no immigration then, at all, if you would check for the ability to speak Maori and master the sign language, I suppose! And ha;f of all the other Kiwis would have to leave, too
    In regards to the ability to check out the native speakers- they all have to proof one way or the other that their language is English, but I would think it sufficient when you grow up in England/ US/ Canada and have done all your schooling in English. Even if some of them might fail the IELTS, they are still able to speak and write English.
    To be perfectly honest, and I know that this will not be taken kindly by some, I sometimes wonder how on earth someone managed to pass their IELTS test, so in my opinion a lot is about the right preparation.

  8. #8
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    Aug 2009
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    Scotland to Wellington
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    It's not just NZ which places these demands on would-be immigrants, Germany for example also has language requirements for certain kinds of visa.

    I think it is fair that language ability is tested with an internationally recognised and taught language examination. If you speak and understand English well enough to pass the exam, you are much more likely to be able to get the most of your time in New Zealand. All a matter of preparation though - I am not familiar with the ins and outs of the IELTS but know from experience with other language exams that one of the best ways to gain optimum marks is with exam preparation and training in exam technique. Just turning up to the exam will not necessarily get you your best marks - there's where a good teacher is vital, one who can practise exams with you and focus on the precise skills you need.

    I also think that if you have grown up in an English-speaking country, have been through the education system and been to university in an English-speaking environment you should not have to take the IELTS test. There are also circumstances where people who don't have English as their mother tongue don't have to take the test if they can offer sufficient evidence of employment/education in an English speaking country.
    I hope that things work out well for you and your family.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Essex, UK
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    I'm sorry your father didn't pass the test, but I am with the previous posters on this: language is very, very important!

    There's a language test in the UK as well if you want to become a citizen (also for skilled working visas, but not sure if that is the same level), and like NZ, under certain circumstances you don't have to take it (education in English, for example).

    No test will ever be absolutely fair. But as far as testing the requirement to be able to function usefully in a new country goes, I find it perfectly legitimate for any country to ensure that the immigrants are at least basic in speaking its language.

    Good luck for the next test!

    Daniela

  10. #10
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    Apr 2013
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    Auckland
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralf-nz View Post
    I think in general the policy is not absolutely fair but for different reasons!

    I deem it fair indeed to check people's language ability when they want to settle here. However as we have three official languages the check ought not be limited to just one of these - albeit being the most common one.
    In addition, especially for SMC everyone ought to be checked including all native English speakers (when limiting to English) I would think.

    Anyway in the concrete - and limited context of your question I think the policy is fair! (Thus my vote with 'Yes'.)
    Considering that deaf people do not meet the "acceptable standard of health" for INZ, I don't think many people applying for residency are fluent, or planning on becoming fluent, in the third official language of New Zealand (NZSL!)

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