$1,200 power bill?

[Hagabel]

We are a family of 4 and keep our house pretty warm but our highest bill this winter was $400! We have dropped it to $200. We have forced air central heating(like you get in the US), a heap pump which is never really on, a panel heater on very low in kids room and a fin heater on for about 2 hrs per day in our room(late at night and just before we wake up). We use our washer almost daily and avoid dryer unless absolutely necessary. We also use a dehumidifier in both bedrooms which we run for an hr in the morning and before bed.
I agree the houses are pretty bad but we bought a well insulated one and are building our next one.
I think there is something wrong with the bill or the meter, ask for a reading after 2 weeks.

[newarrival]

Most washing powders in NZ, that I've seen, are phosphate free or low phosphate. Even the cold water washing powder.http://www.pncc.govt.nz/media/193437..._detergent.pdf

http://www.treehugger.com/culture/wa...e-same-as.html
The numbers they came up with:
If you have a top-loading machine, and heat your water with gas:
Washing in hot/warm: .178/.089 therms = .267 therms = 3.22 pounds of CO₂per load
Washing in hot/cold: .178 therms = 2.1467 pounds of CO₂ per load
Washing in warm/warm: .089/.089 = .178 therms = 2.1467 pounds of CO₂per load
Washing in warm/cold: .089 therm = 2.1467 pounds of CO₂
If you have a top-loading machine and an electric water heater:
Washing in hot/warm: 5.24 kWh = 8.9866 pounds of CO₂ per load
Washing in hot/cold: 3.58 kWh = 6.1397 pounds of CO₂ per load
Washing in warm/warm: 3.58 kWh = 6.1397 pounds of CO₂ per load
Washing in warm/cold: 1.92 kWh = 3.2928 pounds of CO₂ per load
Washing in cold/cold: 0.24 kWh = 0.412 pounds of CO₂ per load

Might be a difference with a front- loader..., I don't even have the option of real cold water washing anyway.

[newarrival]

Thanks, guys. I've contacted the power company and their first reaction was that it has to be an error, but then they looked at the numbers, had me do a meter reading with them on the phone, and everything seems consistent with 3,400 kWh used in 30 days.

We have one 2.4kw column heater that we use in the lounge and a 1.2kw heater that we use in our toddler's room while he sleeps. That one is turned halfway up for the duration of his sleep (12 hours). We do use the dryer quite a bit, maybe 3 times a week, as the clothesline area gets almost no sun. We both shower every other day. Our son takes a bath every other day as well. Our washer uses cold water only (there is actually no hot water input).

I really don't think we're living in excess, here. We're basically just trying to stay reasonably warm in an uninsulated, south-facing house. We have a log burner that keeps the place warm for sure, but at this time of year, it's way too much heat. We end up opening the windows. At $600/cord, that's not a very good use of money.

I'm really trying not to sound like a snotty American, here, but the lack of quality housing around here just drives me crazy. People complain about Wellington winters all the time, and I can't understand why. The weather here is beautiful. The coldest day we've had since we got here in July was 10 degrees. Most of the winter, I've been walking around in a t-shirt. That's not a nasty winter by any stretch of the imagination.

So why is it, then, that having spent most of my life in the frigid northeast corner of the USA, where winters were always below zero, that I'm colder here than I ever was at home? Because the housing here is deplorable. No insulation. Single-paned windows. Damp. Leaky. No sun. COLD. I'm really trying not to be entitled, here, but I can't stand when great places suffer from self-inflicted wounds. There is no reason for houses to be this cold on a 15 degree day. We can go on and on about electric heaters vs heat pumps vs gas, but to me, there's no worse form of heat than the one that is lost through the walls and windows. It's wasteful, impractical, and incredibly expensive.

We're in Vogeltown, up on the hill, by Brooklyn and Newtown. We're paying $500/wk. We want to move when our lease is up in February. Where are the warm houses? Where is the electric bill a bit more palatable, like, say, $950?

I can understand your frustration, our first winter in Dunedin was the coldest I have ever felt, too, although the house we were in was only 5 years old and north- facing. I still think that something is wrong with the power usage/ bill, as I said in my previous post, we lived in pretty bad (as in cold, old, uninsulated) places and, what I forgot to mention, apart from six people taking showers (and at that stage our boys hadn't yet learned how to do it quickly....), we had at least three oil fin heaters running at times in the children's rooms, as well, in one of the very old houses, a night storage heater (and everyone I talked to was warning me how expensive that would be!) It was a six bedroom house, we used five of them, and the highest bill was $ 600, which I found pretty shocking at the time.

Your complaints about uninsulated, cold , damp houses are all valid, but it is a long process to change people's views on living, and for many, many years Kiwis have put up with that sort of housing, heating one room (lounge and kitchen) and spending time there together. But there is definitely change coming, the newer houses have double glazing and there are many advocates for insulating you home and making it warmer and dryer. It just takes time...

Good luck with finding a warmer place!

[deanied]

Is your electricity provided by Bosco by any chance? They were the supplier in one building I lived in and the price per kWh was literally double that of Contact or Genesis. For months we assumed 28 cents per kWh was normal in New Zealand...

[catt]

Just a thought but have you asked your neighbours what they are paying.........if your in a flat they are in a similar position and should give you an idea of what it should really be.

[Super_BQ]

I'm really trying not to sound like a snotty American, here, but the lack of quality housing around here just drives me crazy.

$1200 is indeed easily obtainable. My 1st thought is, and going by from the standard of living in the US (how houses are centrally heated and constant temperature to around 70F,) is you're trying to heat the house to this comfort. It's quite common for those students that come from those places wanting to achieve the same warmth in their rental home in NZ. Many years ago (over 10 years ago) I knew of a landlord that just bought a house and had rented it to a student from S. Korea. The house had underfloor electric heating. To his surprise the winter power bill was over $1000 and what it was simply, the student never turned the heating off. They went to school and wanted a warm house when they arrived back (much in the same manner as how houses are kept warm in Canada & US). When you add that NZ houses have little insulation and leaky windows & doors, well then this is a recipe for HIGH electric bills.

So going back, my question is simply, do the heaters turn off? Setting them to 1/2 setting means nothing as it could still work hard trying to heat to that set temperature, thus chewing power like crazy.

FYI, my last month's heating bill was $145 and we are in Christchurch, which is by far, an order of significant coldness compared to the N. Island. We wash clothes almost every day and 4 people shower every night. We also central heat so the indoor temperature doesn't vary much. In 10 years time, i'm quite confident the energy saving materials and devices used (home newly built 3 years ago) will of paid off. I'm thinking in 10 years time, power will be 50 cents/kW/Hr.

[Super_BQ]

So why is it, then, that having spent most of my life in the frigid northeast corner of the USA, where winters were always below zero, that I'm colder here than I ever was at home? Because the housing here is deplorable. No insulation. Single-paned windows. Damp. Leaky. No sun. COLD. I'm really trying not to be entitled, here, but I can't stand when great places suffer from self-inflicted wounds. There is no reason for houses to be this cold on a 15 degree day. We can go on and on about electric heaters vs heat pumps vs gas, but to me, there's no worse form of heat than the one that is lost through the walls and windows. It's wasteful, impractical, and incredibly expensive.

To answer this question, the simple reason is that in N. America, energy costs are a fraction of what energy costs in NZ. The carbon footprint of such highly insulated houses are probably 2 or 3 times more than a similar size house in NZ (simply because the winters are VERY cold). Because of this high cost, it encourages Kiwi people to 'skimp' in their power usage.

Another relevant issue is the building requirements in NZ differ greatly to those in N. America. That is, air tightness is paramount for a house in Canada (as primary goal is to maintain heat inside the house via mechanical ventilation 'aka active system). No amount of insulation in the walls does justice if the doors can leak air (and all the recessed ceiling lights that heated air just blows straight out). However under the NZ methodology, residential houses are constructed under a 'breathable wall' criteria and follow a 'passive' approach to heating. No vapour barrier (plastic film) are allowed. The wall from inside to outside must allow for moisture to escape, which means some form of vented wall cavity (which compromises the insulation as outside air blows through the weep holes and into that space). In old old houses say 50+ years, the walls are even worse with requirements that the bottom plates have to have drilled holes for venting. Oh by saying passive heating, that is the houses rely on the sun to capture the heat. Just like a greenhouse does.

[kiwi.]

Just read the whole thread and sounds like you're taking action.

[A.C. Slater]

Awesome explanation, Super_BQ, but I'm still having a hard time understanding the logic. If energy is more expensive in NZ (and I agree, it certainly is), then wouldn't there be a higher cost incentive to insulate? As a corollary, petrol is nearly 4x more expensive here than it is in the USA, so it follows that you see more efficient cars here. Why don't we see more efficient houses?

I understand what you're saying about the building codes making tight insulation more difficult, but isn't it all relative? The temperatures outside are much higher than they are in Canada, so it seems to me it wouldn't take much effort to keep enough heat in to maintain a decent temperature.

As far as the passive heating, how long before the powers that be realise this is a failed idea and start allowing tighter houses to be built?

[Living Life]

Wow...!! We are in a 3 bedroom house (2 adults) and everything is electric, the house is not very well insulated and we very rarely use the heat pumps but this last month the highest we have very had and it was $180!

Hope it is a mistake!!