help required for long time illegal resident in a bad situation.

[Phanom]

Hi all,

I am an Australian, but have a situation with my sister in-law who lives in New Zealand and was after some help.

Some background about the issue.

My sister in-law a Thai national is an illegal resident (not sure the correct term) living in New Zealand for the past 14 years, she has had 2 children with New Zealand residents/citizens (not sure which) during the last 14 years, one is 8 years old and the other is 5, (different fathers)

She arrived on a tourist visa 14 years ago (under the belief she could work on it) with a friend, she has been in New Zealand since, due to not having the funds to return home.

The 8 year old lives with my other Sister in-law (New Zealand permanent resident) as the father wants nothing to do with her and the new partner is the same .

The 5 year old lives with her and her father.

Now my sister in-law is in a very abusive (physically and sexually) relationship with her current partner, he beats her regularly, keeps her confined to the house and basically treats her very badly, knowing she can not do anything about it because if she goes to the police they will deport her and she will never see her children again. So she has to put up with beatings and sexual abuse because of this.

She has had enough and and has asked my help to get her out of the situation, she wants to go back to Thailand, but doesn't have a current passport or the funds to do so.

Its been a very hard decision for her to make, as she thinks it means abandoning her children as she will never see them again.

Now she has asked my help to give her the funds to go back to Thailand which isn't a big issue , as I can do this if needed.

But I think its better if she can stay in New Zealand, as she can look after her kids and if their legally can work etc.

After doing some research I think she can maybe apply for a section 61, what do the forum think? is it a good option?

I have called New Zealand immigration and asked what we should do, they were a bit shocked about the full details and after asking various supervisors came back and said that her own safety is the most important and she should go directly to the police to get protection, and the visa issue is a secondary issue that they can help her work it out after she is safe.

So I put this to my sister in-law, but she is scared of the police being from Thailand, but my wife has got though to her that the police are different in New Zealand and Australia (helps because I am a police officer in Australia) and they will help her, and look after her safety.

As I not from New Zealand its hard to know what to do,. go to the police first or put in a Section 61.

My preference knowing Australia law is to go to the police first and the rest will sort itself out, and I think New Zealand would be the same?

As my sister in-law is scared of the Police and government as a whole (cultural thing) and the whole process, I am thinking of going to New Zealand and taking her to the Police myself and sorting the matter out with them and immigration as its to hard to do it from Australia. Even if she gets deported, its better then her being in this abusive relationship and its what she wants in away, but I think there are better options then just handing herself in to immgration and getting deported and blacklisted etc.

Can anyone other their advice or thoughts on the matter?

[Karen Phillips]

What a terrible situation! Obviously there are no guarantees with a situation like this. Your sister definitely needs help. There are special residence visas for victims of domestic violence. However, the first hurdle is her illegal status. Section 61 can be a powerful tool, with the help of someone who knows their way round it. I fully understand that your sister can't pay for this help and would only look at options which would not cost her. There are special agencies who would help her. Whereabouts in New Zealand is she - just name of city will do, as I don't want you to risk anything which could identify her publicly. I will then try to put her in touch with a charity or not-for-profit that can help her stay and be with her children. Karen

[jawnbc]

Police first. And contact Women's Refuge for assistance: http://www.womensrefuge.org.nz/

[Fern49]

What a terrible situation! Obviously there are no guarantees with a situation like this. Your sister definitely needs help. There are special residence visas for victims of domestic violence. However, the first hurdle is her illegal status. Section 61 can be a powerful tool, with the help of someone who knows their way round it. I fully understand that your sister can't pay for this help and would only look at options which would not cost her. There are special agencies who would help her. Whereabouts in New Zealand is she - just name of city will do, as I don't want you to risk anything which could identify her publicly. I will then try to put her in touch with a charity or not-for-profit that can help her stay and be with her children. Karen

Reading your reply you are condoning this woman's illegal actions. .

Phanom; I agree your sis-in-law is not in a good situation either legally or relationship wise. There is too much of this kind of thing in the country,when women break the law as she has, they leave themselves open for exploitation.
In her situation what was she doing having kids in the first place, my guess is she thought it would make it easier for her to stay. She should go to the police and get it all sorted whether she ends back in Thailand or not.

[dharder]

Reading your reply you are condoning this woman's illegal actions. .

And reading your reply, it sounds as if it's her own fault and she should have expected something like this.

On the scale of 'how bad is your illegal action' (if there was such a thing), being beaten and abused surely ranks above any immigration rules broken. I do agree with everyone, though, police first to ensure her own safety and that of the child living in the same house. If not for herself, then she really should do this for her child.

Daniela

[Phanom]

There are special agencies who would help her. Whereabouts in New Zealand is she - just name of city will do, as I don't want you to risk anything which could identify her publicly. I will then try to put her in touch with a charity or not-for-profit that can help her stay and be with her children. Karen

Hi Karen she is Auckland, if you can recommend some places to contact it would be greatly appreciated. She wants to return to Thailand as the situation with her partner is getting worse as the abuse is escalating. I think its better to sort this situation out first before worrying about her immigration status.

We can sort her immigration status out a later date, and if needed she can return to Thailand. The difficultly comes from having 2 childern in New Zealand and what happens if she returns to Thailand, as she most likely will not see them again. Her current partner has said if she returns to Thailand, he wont take care of their child and will abandon it, but at the same time wont let the child go with her (typical abusive relationship power games).

Reading your reply you are condoning this woman's illegal actions. .

Phanom; I agree your sis-in-law is not in a good situation either legally or relationship wise. There is too much of this kind of thing in the country,when women break the law as she has, they leave themselves open for exploitation.
In her situation what was she doing having kids in the first place, my guess is she thought it would make it easier for her to stay. She should go to the police and get it all sorted whether she ends back in Thailand or not.

Fern49, While I understand your post and agree with the part about leaving themselves open to exploitation, not all situations are as black and white and as general as your comments. Your point of view is very much from someone who has never had dealing with people in this situation, so I will explain the situation in more detail for you.

While she broke the law by overstaying her visa, she was conned into coming to New Zealand in the first place, she went though some agency in Thailand that said they could organise a visa for her to come to New Zealand to work for 12 months and they had a job for her when she got there. So she/her family paid a lot of money to this agency which they couldn't afford to do really as they are very poor even by Thai standards, on the belief that she could make good money and return to Thailand in 12 months.

So this turned out to be a con, with no job, no work visa and no money to by a return ticket, so she was stuck in New Zealand with no money, no accommodation etc.

Now a western person would most likely go to the authorities and tell them what happened and ask for help, but most people from third world countries are scared of authorities so would never do this (have you have seen jails/immigration detention in Thailand and how they treat them?) Her family spent all the money they had to send her there, so had no money to send her to come back home.

So now she in a foreign country, can't speak the language so open to exploitation, which now happens, she is exploited by New Zealand people who give her work, but pay her poorly if at all, as they know she can do nothing about. Many times she would go without food for days on end as she had no money, she basically does what she can to get by.

You ask

In her situation what was she doing having kids in the first place, my guess is she thought it would make it easier for her to stay.

I take it from your comments you have made the assumption that she had a choice in having the children? Without going into the details I am sorry to tell you this but in this circumstance it is not the case.

The children have made it harder for her to leave New Zealand, because leaving New Zealand will mean most likely never seeing them again, would you find it an easy choice to abandon your children? She can't take them with her without going though a court process in New Zealand.

if it was just her alone I would have bought her a ticket and she would be back in Thailand now, but her situation is more difficult then this, which is why I came to the forum to ask for some help.

If she was in Australian, I would know how to sort this out as I understand the Australian system and where to get help, but being in New Zealand I am not sure about it all.

While I understand about going to the police first and I would recommend to anyone in the same situation to do this, I also understand some cultures have a great deal of mistrust in police and are just plain scared to death of them.

If it comes to it, I will get on a plane and go to New Zealand and take her to the police myself help her sort it out, I just wanted to know what options and assistance was available to her such as the Women's Refuge link that jawbc posted or the help Karen talked about. As sometimes its good to have support from these types of organisations in dealing with these matters.

[kiwieagle]

I would just ignore Fern49. It's not worth your time trying to justify your sister's life to someone who has lost their humanity to ideology.

I'm not sure you should call police first. I would call a woman's shelter in her area or a woman's shelter in your area and ask them how to proceed. She needs to have a plan in place to escape before he finds out she's leaving him. Women who leave their abusive partners are in grave danger. Once she is safe and hidden, you can figure out what the legal ramifications are.

[shawankit]

"If it comes to it, I will get on a plane and go to New Zealand and take her to the police myself help her sort it out, " --- I think you should come to NZ and help. Since you are a a family member , She is most likely to trust you and take necessary steps than than trusting a complete stranger.
I hope you are able to help her and resolve the problem.

[Kath]

It breaks my heart to read such a judgemental reaction in this thread, blaming and revictimising the poor woman again. Whoever is without sin, cast the first stone ...

I live in Auckland and work as a volunteer with victims of family violence (especially with refugee women and victims from people smugglers) and I have done so for over 25 years now.

I can truly vouch for the fact that none of this her fault nor that she wanted it, deserved it, asked for it or whatever other judgemental responses anyone can think of.

Please, please, please, PM me without any further delay if I can be of any assistance; check and/or provide information, make phonecalls, contact organisations (like interpreter services or safe houses), visit people, ... because, unfortunately, there is no time to waste in violent and abusive situations, no matter what the visa-issues are.

(For obvious reasons I can't disclose anymore info about my own organisation and involvement but I have official photo-ID and business cards for verifaction in case you need me)

PS
Phanom, thanks for caring enough, as soon as you have made 5 posts you'll be able to send a PM.
Karen, thanks for your helpful response, we might have to liaise and join forces ...?!

[Dave in NZ]

Phanom, just write 3 very short posts eg the word test then once you have the 5 posts you will be able to pm kath. You may have to wait a bit for the system to function but should be ok within the hour