Flatly declined visitor partnership visa. Can I & my wife ever live together in NZ?

[queny]

Hi Everyone, this is my first post after a lot of reading on this forum. I can see some commenters here, for example the admins, are from what I now know bang on with their advice and also very clear. I include anonymised correspondence between my immigration lawyer and CO, to make the basis of the decline as clear as possible. The lawyer made no promises of success and I see no point in second guessing their work. However, from these forums I can see that we did not live together anywhere near long enough to get a visitor partnership visa. I do not know now we are married and flatly partnership based visa declined if she can apply for a standard visitor visa. I did actually think this would be the case before we married and applied for her visa, based on what I read in the INZ web pages, and warned my wife and her family accordingly, but let myself be swayed by the firmly expressed opinions of others, family friends and advisors who seemed to know better.

My wife is in her last week of being a nanny working in Singapore (under the Overseas Filipino worker program). She had resigned her current post effective dated of visa decision or end March, in the expectation of a visa to reunite with me in NZ. She has been flatly declined any sort of partnership visitor visa to NZ, bonded, limited, or of any duration as you will read below. The immigration specialist lawyer, wasn't cheap. The immigration lawyer prepared as much documentation as legally possible themselves. This was done in the hope of presenting some sort of special case of the difficulties and limitations of our situation. My wife, having neither job nor visa now, will return to her family farm in the Philippines provinces. Her family will look after her, (she knows local farming techniques also), and I can stay there with her for the month or so at a time I could afford to stay. I would also help out on the farm. The way the climate is going NZ may need rice farmers soon enough!

Because of her live in /more than full time nanny job, and the culture of the provinces her family are from, we could only meet when she was on holiday, we had to marry to travel together and she wanted her parents present, so it had to be on one of her annual trips back home. Even if they wanted to travel, which they didn't, I could not afford their airfares. Her 2 year, 12-15 hour a day, 6 day a week $SG 450 a month live in nanny contract was up for renewal July 2014. I have met her employers, (nice enough folks, one is a kiwi, the other a filipina), having travelled back to Singapore with her before coming home. I know her personal life, daily routines quite comprehensively having spent averages of 1 -2 hours each day in conversation with her and she is a very genuine person with very simple aspirations and values in life that I share with her. I am not rich, just an ordinary working man, and she has known this from the outset. We married without doubt or hesitation after a short but very happy courtship. Please note she has not married before, has no children and has been a live in nanny in Singapore many years.

One further consideration, a senior manager for my employer has said they might be able to sponsor her employment into work as a caregiver. I will be able to follow up on this next week.

So anyway the legal fees, the 18 day trip to The Philippines, Singapore and back, and the wedding, simple as it was, have not left me with a lot of change, just what I need for her airfares and to sponsor her expected 9 months with me providing free accommodation. Fortunately, I am in an occupation where I can always pick up work on return home, but cannot continuously afford to be away more than a month at a time, two months or so working. Also fortunately she only has one relative she supported at all out of her meager salary, (tuition for her younger sister who is finishing her last year at a naval academy) so this is no great burden at all. I would appreciate any advice on what our options are for living together again, ideally where at least one of us has a job that will support us.

The advice of declined visa follows. I received it after enquiring of the Immigration advocate below why, (as relayed by the advocate in a separate email), my wife was suddenly asked to urgently collect her documents, as we were given no reason. We even wondered if the visa might have been granted..silly us...but something told me to reply to the advocate bluntly demanding to know why. Just before my wife was heading off I got this email:


Hello XXXX:

Yesterday I received for the first time the email which appears below, from the officer in Singapore who has now, I am very sorry to say, declined XXXXs Visitor Visa application.

I have been in meetings all day and I see that now there is some pressure to have XXXX “pick up documents”; I just have not had a chance to send you this notification until now.

I am extremely disappointed with this decision. I understand of course that it is a lot harder on you I have some clear suggestions of what to do next, that I would like to discuss with you. I am “booked out” on Monday, but on pretty much any day other than Monday next week I should be able to meet with you and go over what we do next. Please let me know a day and time that works for you.

Don’t give up hope. Cheers. XXXX


XXXX
Barrister and Solicitor/Immigration Lawyer/Notary Public
XXXX

From: XXXX
Sent: Thursday, 6 March 2014 2:57 p.m.
To: XXXX
Subject: RE: Visitor visa application - XXXX

Dear XXXX

This application has been declined on 27 Feb 2014. The passport, decline letter and originals were sent to the Visa Application Centre (VAC) on 28 Feb 2014 for collection. When VAC received the passport/documents, they will send an email to the contact email address provided in the application form to inform that a decision has been made on the application and the documents ready for collection at VAC. For this application, no email contact is provided in the application form. VAC advised that for those applications with no email address provided, they will call the contact person if the documents are not collected after 5 working days. Below is a copy of the decline letter.

27 February 2014

Application number: XXXX
Client number: XXXX

XXXX

c/o XXXX
XXXX Immigration Law Firm
P O Box XXXX
XXXX
New Zealand

Dear XXXX

Application for a visitor visa for:

Applicant: XXXX

Date of birth:XXXX

We refer to your application for a visitor visa based on partnership submitted on 10 February 2014.

Our decision on your application

We have declined your application because you do not meet the requirements set out in partnership immigration instructions.

To be issued a visa based on partnership, applicants need to demonstrate that they are living together in a partnership that is genuine and stable with their New Zealand partner.

Factors that have a bearing on whether two people are living together in a partnership that is genuine and stable include but are not limited to:

- the duration of the parties relationship;

- the existence, nature, and extent of the parties' common residence;

- the degree of financial dependence or interdependence, and any arrangements for financial support, between the parties;

- the common ownership, use, and acquisition of property by the parties;

- the reputation and public aspects of the relationship.


According to submission, you and your New Zealand partner

- met on an internet dating website in late August 2013

- declared you were in a relationship on Facebook in September 2013

- communicate frequently via Skype, Viber, Whatsapp, occasionally by cellphone

- got married in Philippines on 03 January 2014 (date of issue of the marriage certificate)

You and your New Zealand partner 'met' each other via internet only in late August 2013, met each other in person on 23 December 2013, married on 03 January 2014, and your New Zealand partner returned to New Zealand on 09 January 2014.

Considering the very short duration of your relationship and the very limited time spent together, we are unable to be satisfied that you have demonstrated that the partnership is genuine and stable. We are not satisfied that you meet the partnership requirements of living together in a genuine and stable partnership.

We have considered whether the imposition of a bond or the granting of a limited visa would mitigate our concerns but we do not think that they would. We have also considered whether there are any special circumstances which would warrant an exception to immigration instructions but we can find no reason to grant a visa as an exception.

Your application is therefore declined. Please note that there is no right of appeal or reconsideration against this decline decision. You may apply again should you have new information. Any new application would be considered against the instructions applicable at the time of application and will be subject to approval. You should be aware that if your circumstances are still the same then it is unlikely that a new application would be approved.

Yours sincerely

XXXX

Immigration Officer

Immigration New Zealand

New Zealand Visa Application Centre

XXXX

From: XXXX
Sent: Thursday, 6 March 2014 5:54 a.m.
To: XXXX
Subject: Re: Visitor visa application -XXXX

Dear XXXX

I am writing this on behalf of Ms XXXX’s immigration lawyer, Mr XXXX who I am working with at The XXXX Law Firm.

Please find a scanned copy of Ms XXXX’s Singaporean police certificate.

We would be grateful if you could please advise how long it would take for you to finalise this application.

Please do not hesitate to contact us if you require further information or documents for the processing of this application.

XXXXX
Immigration Law Advocate

XXX Law Firm

[JandM]

Hello. I'm sorry to read about the disappointment and waste of money you have gone through, but as you can see for yourself, your situation at the moment just doesn't fit in with the very clear INZ regulations.

I'm sure it's no consolation to you, but partnership visas are always scrutinized very carefully exactly because they are the prime target for fraudsters. It isn't possible to scrutinize people's feeling for one another, which would come down to something like an essay-writing competition, so they have made the rules keep strictly to showing a live-in relationship, and that is the only thing that will get her a visa. Evidence of communication at a distance only counts when it is maintaining contact AFTER a couple have already got solid proof of substantial time living together, and a valid reason for then having to be apart.

It is obvious that there isn't any hope of getting a change of mind on this present, refused, application. INZ have shown how it doesn't meet the regulations. I also think it's unlikely they would grant her an ordinary visitor's visa, since the underlying reasoning for one of those is always that the visitor will LEAVE NZ again, and her recent marriage to you and partnership application shows that she doesn't intend to do that.

The INZ letter says, 'You may apply again should you have new information.' This new information would have to be in the form of evidence of more time spent living together, somewhere. People have successfully applied after one of them has been on holiday for at least two months in the other's country, with proof that they lived together throughout (see old threads about the kind of evidence which is needed). They have also done so when both of them have been travelling together, not in the home country of either of them, with proof including their travel and accommodation records. These ideas are probably what you will have to consider, before your wife's application will be taken seriously.

One thing you don't mention - what nationality do you have yourself? Also, would you have the right to work in Sinagapore or the Philippines, to be where your wife is for a qualifying time?

[queny]

Thank you very much JandM. I was hoping for a reply from you having read your other replies to so many posts. You can see I can see, I see...pardon my tired attempt at humour.. I am an Auckland born kiwi. Fortunately, marriage to a Philippines citizen seems to be weighted very heavily under their immigration rules and I think I might readily be permitted to work there. Of course the pay is a fraction of ours, but so are expenses. My initial situation will be living free on a food producing farm so not a bad start. However, my occupation does not exist per se in either The Philippines or Singapore, at least not without much higher qualifications. Also my wife in Singapore could only hope for further 2 year live in nanny contracts. As I understand it, if an OFW nanny somehow manages to enter a relationship the expectation is that she leaves. I think to accumulate funds I will very probably need to spend some periods of months at home, is there any info - I know one cannot get advice here- on how INZ would usually view that, would we to be safer of a better result need a total of 12 months cohabitation, which might take us 18 -24 months? I think on rereading, which I probably should do again tomorrow too..you are saying lesser periods have been known to suffice?

[JandM]

There isn't any timing given in the regulations about qualifying for a partner-sponsored work visa, but in practice from what has happened to people who have told us about themselves on here, it seems that INZ take applications seriously from when they have around two months' good evidence. The requirements for the partner-sponsored visitor's visa seem to be the same. Another thought - if you were set up living with your wife, and then you left to get back to get some more NZ income, a good solid mass of partnership evidence covering at least two months FIRST would mean they would treat such things as Skyping, emails and phone records to maintain the relationship with the respect they couldn't do this time round, especially if you followed up your absence with more proof of being back with her (so your time together was more than your time away). (I imagine you will have seen the many old threads on the subject of proof of partnership. https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=cr&...tnership+proof.)

It's partner-sponsored Residence that requires at least 12 months' evidence of living together.

This page http://www.immigration.govt.nz/branc...a/partnership/ of FAQs may be of help.

[queny]

Thank you very much indeed JandM It is a big adjustment but it feels like we are reconciling to reality with your concise, thorough and kindly put advice, which dovetails in with some advice tonight from an admin at the pinoy-kiwi forums. My wife and I have been talking all this information through. She has made it clear to me that if I can just be there for her birthday in mid April and take good care in the meantime she will be happy, so we will make that the initial "anchor" stay so that INZ can also hopefully be happy in the necessary administrative sense. Then for good measure rinse lather, repeat, I guess applying while living together the second time after a carefully documented /communication logged gap and having made and evidenced sharing of income and expenses, plus more support letters and so forth per your google link. Once again thanks heaps, you helped at least one couple stay sane and focused towards realistic solutions tonight. Maraming salamat sa inyo!-thank you very much indeed!

[queny]

One last thing, I am still wondering if she gets sponsored by my employer or a rest home if that would help, being a completely different sort of visa, she certainly has the skills and references and I understand there are vacancies. Would our declined partnership visa however also rule that out at this stage?

[JandM]

If your wife got the offer of a skilled job that qualified her for a work visa in her own right, it would put a totally new element into the situation, and the declined partner-sponsored visa would have no effect on that whatever.

[queny]

That is very good to know. By the way, the lawyer wants to meet with me to discuss the possibility of reviewing the case notes:

"Yes, I agree that she said that she had considered it, (a limited visa) but my view is that there was sufficient evidence of the relationship to warrant not considering and rejecting even a Limited Purpose Visa, but considering and approving a Limited Purpose Visa. I’d like to ask for a copy of the file (and their internal notes) to see whether there was actual and fair consideration given to the option of issuing a Limited Purpose Visa. That’s one of the points that I planned to discuss with you. Let me know if you’d like to meet, and if so when it would suit you. Cheers. XXXX"

While the lawyer has offered that the half hour meeting to discuss options will be free, I imagine the follow up would not be. Rather hard to choose between spending my dwindling funds on achieving the 2 months together OR further legal fees, because both are probably not possible at the moment.

[JandM]

Your decision on how to spend your available resources - you met this man, and have seen where his knowledge got you thus far.

[queny]

Thanks again JandM. I think there is a certain logic to proving a relationship by living together and given that is what my wife and I want we should take that path as quickly and as long as possible before applying again. Better a bird in the hand than a wild goose chase, to mix metaphors. I can also while over there make sure my wife gets a Philippines drivers license that can convert into an International, which would make it far easier for her to get sponsored employment with my employer, if it turns out she needs to go down that totally different path. By the way, my wife has had the chance to go through the documents she collected from INZ SG on Monday and not all our documents seem to have been returned, some of our support letters, all of our Facebook print outs but also our marriage license. INZ quote the marriage date in their letter so they must have sighted the license. Will follow this up with them but it is quite surprising!