Driving while license suspension...

[starxcn]

Hi everyone,

I wonder has anyone gone through the same thing...

Last year while I was in New Zealand, my license was suspended automatically due to demerit points. Then I drove once and happened to be caught by police. Very lucky, I know... But I wasn't drinking nor speeding. Car was impounded for 28 days as usual, then appeared in court, and paid fines. After all these, a further 6 months suspension applied. Then I got my license back in March this year. Clean records.

Now I'm applying for a student visa, I declared this and the CO questioned about it. She states "you therefore do not meet good character requirement...".

But from the INZ manual or the 2009 ACT, they all say it's only those have been drink and driving, or imprisoned for 3 months etc, that fall under this? Apparently what I've done is not even listed anywhere?

Will I have to get a character waiver? What do I have to prepare to get it? How long will that take?

I'm nerves because school is due to start next week and the visa is still not yet processed...

Thanks for any sharing!

[JandM]

"you therefore do not meet good character requirement...".

Was this email refusing you a visa? Or did the CO go on to say that you would therefore need to apply for a character waiver? Or was this a potentially prejudicial information email? - that is, you were asked to reply with any further relevant information or comment?

Possibly (I don't know) the court would have had the power to sentence you to a three-month term of imprisonment for what you did. http://www.immigration.govt.nz/opsmanual/43627.htm

You should be aware that in the last two or three years, the NZ government are treating driving offences increasingly seriously. Your post above gives the impression of thinking that demerit points are not serious - though they are ALL given for breaking a law, and, on the road, therefore possibly surprising and/or endangering someone else. Then you drove while suspended, which again you must have known was breaking the law. This is not nothing. Most people go through their whole lives without getting taken to court. INZ's attitude may be that if you are happy to break some NZ laws, you may have the same attitude to immigration law. You may think they're wrong, and that people shouldn't feel like that about you, but the NZ government and legal system have the power, so what they say, goes. NOW do you see the kind of approach needed from you here? - you have to accept that you were in the wrong, and may therefore get refused the visa you want. IF you are being given the chance to apply for a visa waiver, you have to write a letter explaining your wrong actions, and accepting that your reasons at the time were wrong, and that you have changed since then - which in your case may be difficult as it is such a short time since this happened. And you have to give character references from people of standing in your community stating that you are a well-behaved person who contributes to society.

[starxcn]

Was this email refusing you a visa? Or did the CO go on to say that you would therefore need to apply for a character waiver? Or was this a potentially prejudicial information email? - that is, you were asked to reply with any further relevant information or comment?

Possibly (I don't know) the court would have had the power to sentence you to a three-month term of imprisonment for what you did. http://www.immigration.govt.nz/opsmanual/43627.htm

You should be aware that in the last two or three years, the NZ government are treating driving offences increasingly seriously. Your post above gives the impression of thinking that demerit points are not serious - though they are ALL given for breaking a law, and, on the road, therefore possibly surprising and/or endangering someone else. Then you drove while suspended, which again you must have known was breaking the law. This is not nothing. Most people go through their whole lives without getting taken to court. INZ's attitude may be that if you are happy to break some NZ laws, you may have the same attitude to immigration law. You may think they're wrong, and that people shouldn't feel like that about you, but the NZ government and legal system have the power, so what they say, goes. NOW do you see the kind of approach needed from you here? - you have to accept that you were in the wrong, and may therefore get refused the visa you want. IF you are being given the chance to apply for a visa waiver, you have to write a letter explaining your wrong actions, and accepting that your reasons at the time were wrong, and that you have changed since then - which in your case may be difficult as it is such a short time since this happened. And you have to give character references from people of standing in your community stating that you are a well-behaved person who contributes to society.

This was in the PPI letter. I have explained as much as I could with a genuine attitude in the responding letter. I just wanna see if any people have gone through the same story and what are their outcome.

Yes I'm aware I broke the law. I admit what I did was stupid and wrong, I have nothing against this. It was not "nothing", it was an offence against the law and I'm well aware of this now. But after all I don't think I actually endangered anyone on the road. License suspended doesn't mean I don't how to drive...I wasn't drinking or speeding. It was about 10pm, I was the only car on the road and that's part of the reason why the cop pulled me over. Plus, my car was a Prius, not a fancy loud sports car anyway. The cop even drove me home afterwards. I drove a total of about 10 minutes only in that night, and also in the whole suspension period...

I remember when the cop was giving me tickets and towing my car away, I was begging him to let me go cause it was like only 200 meters from my home, and he said "come on, it's just a couple of hundred dollars, nothing too big..." stuff like that. Sounds like he does this everyday and made a fortune or something... I wasn't aware that it could cause problems now otherwise I would have used a lawyer to get better court results. Because the consequences caused by the penalty are now obviously far outweighed what the penalty intended to achieve. Which I believe S106 would have applied to me.

From everything I checked, asked and read, the court does not put people to jail for even 3 minutes for just drive with a suspended license for the first time. Maybe if you drunk and do it 5 times in a roll then they will. Now the manual says only people fall into such category required a waiver, in other words, other people should not be required. Because what they've done have not reached the degree that needs to be seriously dealt with. For example you can't treat a speeding driver the same with a murderer.

My opinion is, even INZ is willing to get tougher on enforcement, I don't think they should do more than what's clearly stated in the manual, right? Otherwise how do we ordinary people know what guidelines to follow? And the manual says "
d.has been convicted at any time of:
any offence for which they have been imprisoned; or
an offence in New Zealand for which the court has the power to impose imprisonment for a term of three months or more;" Which obviously doesn't apply to my situation.

The problem with me is, I heard that the waiver will take a long time and a really fussy process. And I don't have time to wait, school starts next week, otherwise it'll be 6 month wait for the next semester...again, the consequences I will suffer are outweighing the intentions...

These are just my personal concerns, at the moment I can only wait, nothing else.

[Hagabel]

I empathise to a point but you only drove 10 mins on a suspended license. It was suspended! Obviously for a number of offences causing too many demerit points. it is pretty serious when you lose your license and then knowingly drive. I am not sure what will happen but I seriously hope you take NZ laws more seriously because it could be one of us that you impact with not obeying driving laws.

[swearwolves]

Otherwise how do we ordinary people know...

You, sir, are not ordinary. You are a criminal. Ordinary people do not have such high disregard for the law. Driving with a suspended licence? What were you thinking?

Please stay in China. I'd feel safer.

[JandM]

The problem with me is, I heard that the waiver will take a long time and a really fussy process. And I don't have time to wait, school starts next week, otherwise it'll be 6 month wait for the next semester...again, the consequences I will suffer are outweighing the intentions...

Waivers are MEANT to be a 'fussy' - that is, painstaking - process. They are intended to make certain that ONLY people with a law-abiding mindset are admitted to the country.

You do have time to wait. By which I mean, you are entirely dependent on the decision of a branch of the NZ government, and they have all the power to admit you or keep you out of the country. Your plans are entirely unimportant to them.

Your whole post clearly shows that you still don't realize the importance of having broken the law. You are saying, it doesn't matter, because it was *you*, and because despite getting caught committing offences any number of times, you fortunately didn't hurt anybody. This is not any excuse, and it does not wipe out the fact of your having a police record.

Sounds like he does this everyday and made a fortune or something...

What an attitude to have! Police officers don't receive fine money, or get paid bonuses for how many criminals they catch.

Because the consequences caused by the penalty are now obviously far outweighed what the penalty intended to achieve.

The consequences to you 'outweigh the intentions'? No, the law has NO interest in you. It applies to everyone. It is not open to individuals to decide that a 'little' offence against a particular law means they shouldn't get the full consequence. There is no such thing as only breaking a law 'a little', just as there is no such condition as being 'a little bit dead'.

[batgirl1001]

Technically you have committed a traffic violation and hence a traffic offence. It is not a criminal offence. And no, I don't believe you should have your student visa revoked because of this. I would suggest you consult an immigration consultant, no matter how expensive it is and it will take some time.

[sheepland]

Yes I'm aware I broke the law. I admit what I did was stupid and wrong, I have nothing against this. It was not "nothing", it was an offence against the law and I'm well aware of this now. But after all I don't think I actually endangered anyone on the road. License suspended doesn't mean I don't how to drive...I wasn't drinking or speeding. It was about 10pm, I was the only car on the road and that's part of the reason why the cop pulled me over. Plus, my car was a Prius, not a fancy loud sports car anyway. The cop even drove me home afterwards. I drove a total of about 10 minutes only in that night, and also in the whole suspension period...

I remember when the cop was giving me tickets and towing my car away, I was begging him to let me go cause it was like only 200 meters from my home, and he said "come on, it's just a couple of hundred dollars, nothing too big..." stuff like that. Sounds like he does this everyday and made a fortune or something... I wasn't aware that it could cause problems now otherwise I would have used a lawyer to get better court results. Because the consequences caused by the penalty are now obviously far outweighed what the penalty intended to achieve. Which I believe S106 would have applied to me.

From everything I checked, asked and read, the court does not put people to jail for even 3 minutes for just drive with a suspended license for the first time. Maybe if you drunk and do it 5 times in a roll then they will. Now the manual says only people fall into such category required a waiver, in other words, other people should not be required. Because what they've done have not reached the degree that needs to be seriously dealt with. For example you can't treat a speeding driver the same with a murderer.

My opinion is, even INZ is willing to get tougher on enforcement, I don't think they should do more than what's clearly stated in the manual, right? Otherwise how do we ordinary people know what guidelines to follow? And the manual says "
d.has been convicted at any time of:
any offence for which they have been imprisoned; or
an offence in New Zealand for which the court has the power to impose imprisonment for a term of three months or more;" Which obviously doesn't apply to my situation.

Maybe you should take a look at the safe driving PSAs that NZTA releases, I would think they take driving infringements quite seriously. And with regards to "License suspended doesn't mean I don't how to drive..." Part of driving entail knowing the road rules, etc...

But come on, you obviously racked up enough demerit points to get your license suspended. It's not like you committed just one infringement.

Then you go onto make excuses (What does your car being a Prius got to do with it?) showing that you're not actually sorry but still think you're right. And worse still, you imply that the traffic officers are corrupt. They are just doing their job.

I suppose you would get your character waiver in the end, but then INZ won't actually care whether you need the student visa or not, they process things on their own time.

I hope no one ever has to cross paths with you on the road...

[Sun777]

Last year while I was in New Zealand, my license was suspended automatically due to demerit points

First thing first, I'm not sure how your license was suspended automatically.

Having read both your posts above, I think the problem will largely be resolved if you change your attitude towards the officers (police and immigration). If their guideline doesn't explicitly suggest what kind of offence requires character waiver or normal processing, remember each application is dealt on its own merits (i.e. case by case basis). I can only suspect that you might have replied to the Case Officer in similar tone and for this reason they are wanting to know more.

The only suggestion I can give you is to read above posts and understand what is in tangent.

p.s. It will be helpful for you (only) if you don't argue with the officers rather be understanding of their concern. They do know all the rules and clause in their handbook and pointing it out will only upset them and subsequently disappointment for you.

Regardless of everything, wishing you all the best!

[Hagabel]

You, sir, are not ordinary. You are a criminal. Ordinary people do not have such high disregard for the law. Driving with a suspended licence? What were you thinking?

Please stay in China. I'd feel safer.

I have to agree.