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Thread: Claiming points for work outside Auckland without claiming points for job...

  1. #1
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    Question Claiming points for work outside Auckland without claiming points for job...

    Hi all,

    I'm still trying to figure out whether I can get my EOI in sooner rather than later, and people keep putting ideas in my head about how easy it should be for me, and how surprised they are to find out i'm not a resident yet.

    So, I want to check out these doubts that they're now putting in my head!

    Points that I can DEFINITELY claim for EOI:
    30 - age
    50 - bachelor's degree from a UK uni

    Points where i'm NOT SURE I can claim:
    10 (30 in November) - for work outside Auckland.
    -- Can I claim these points even though I can't claim points for my job (because I don't fulfill the requirements to meet the ANZSCO description of my job)? i.e. are they considered separate from the job offer points?
    10 - close family in New Zealand
    -- I assume I can't claim these points since the 'family' I would be referring to is my partner, who is also on a work visa, and would be claiming his residency through me?
    5 - work experience in NZ
    -- Can I claim these points even though I can't claim points for my job? i.e. could you claim these points even if your work experience was in New World?

    Points where i'm 99% certain I can't claim:
    60 - current skilled employment in NZ for 12 months or more
    -- I've been working in my current role (which is in Appendix 6, and is on the ANZSCO list) for about 18 months, but I don't fulfill the requirement of 3 years experience/a qualification from NZ register level 2 (working as a Project Manager in a translation company but have a degree in languages).

    Can anybody clarify any of my 'doubtful' points? Particularly the one about being outside Auckland.

    If I can claim points for living outside Auckland then in November I would have 50 + 30 + 30 points = 110 and would have just enough to send in my EOI without claiming any points for my job.

    Thanks in advance!!

  2. #2
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    Work outside Auckland - I don't THINK so, but the regulations don't explicitly say it has to recognized work, i.e. with qualification or length of work experience in place, so I suggest you PM Karen Phillips, the LIA, to ask that one.

    No, you can't have the Close Family points for your partner - that would be a somewhat circular situation, with he-depends-on-she-depends-on-he etc.! It's other relatives, see here. http://www.immigration.govt.nz/opsmanual/30869.htm

    And no, you can't have the work experience in NZ points, because this http://www.immigration.govt.nz/opsmanual/30575.htm DOES state that it's about recognized work experience. You'll be able to get it when you've done the specified amount of time for experience in lieu of qualification to kick in.

    That's the same answer for the current skilled employment in NZ question.

    I'm sorry, but I think you're chasing a shadow, here, in thinking you could get residence in advance of fulfilling the requirements for being skilled. The whole point about SMC is the 'skilled' bit - skilled by qualification or experience. And getting an EOI selected with the 100-point minimum requires a job or job offer, so I can't see they would ever leave yours out of consideration. You're looking for a loophole, and INZ have years of experience at blocking loopholes. By all means ask Karen Phillips or ChrisMwn for the expert view as well as my amateur one, but...

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Thanks for your detailed response!

    Yep, i've contacted INZ directly and they said "You can claim points for work outside the Auckland Region if you have current skilled employment or an offer of skilled employment outside the Auckland region qualifies for ten points.". So basically to claim any points that are at all related to work, you have to first fulfill the requirements for claiming a skilled employment.

    I thought as much about the family one, was just double-checking!

    However, INZ did point me in the direction of their ops manual for residence (http://www.immigration.govt.nz/NR/rd.../Residence.pdf) which I didn't realise existed, so i've been reading through that.

    Again, perhaps clutching a little at straws but:
    The manual states in SM7.10.1 that employment is skilled if:
    i. the applicant holds a relevant recognised qualification which is at, or above, the qualification level on the NZQF (see SM14.5) that corresponds to the indicative skill level described for that occupation in the ANZSCO; or
    ii. the applicant has the relevant recognised work experience that the ANZSCO indicates may substitute the required qualification;

    This is what I already knew, and I believed my degree wasn't relevant enough to make me qualify. But:
    It then states in SM7.10.5 that a qualification would be relevant to the occupation if:
    a. the major subject area of the principal applicant's recognised qualification is directly applicable to the employment; and/or
    b. an immigration officer is satisfied that the qualification was a key factor in the employer's decision to employ the principal applicant in that position.

    My current role is a Project Manager for a large translation company, and my degree (from the UK) is in three different languages. I would definitely not have been offered this role if I didn't have a degree in languages. I always thought I had to have a qualification in Project Management itself, or the 3 years experience. But this is making me wonder whether my languages degree would make me qualify, given that I am working with languages every day. I suppose it would be as if somebody with a degree in engineering was working as a Project Manager in an engineering company - wouldn't their qualification be relevant then?

    What do you think?

  4. #4
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    It's an argument, certainly, that could be put forward.

    Another one you might want to think about is whether it would be possible to 'rebrand' yourself, by seeing how far your job description would match up with Translator, on the skills checker and ANZSCO - ??? http://skillshortages.immigration.govt.nz/translator http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@....+Professionals

  5. #5
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    So I've just heard back from INZ. I just sent them an e-mail with the above info in, and they said:

    "On the basis of the information that you have provided in your email, it appears that your qualification would fulfil the requirements of having skilled employment. However, the decision on awarding points for this will be determined by an Immigration Officer once they have been able to make a thorough assessment on the information in the Expression of Interest."

    So now the question is whether it's too big of a risk to try. As I understand it, none of the money is refundable if you're rejected, and just because your EOI is chosen doesn't mean you will get Residency (as you have to then prove everything). Is it unlikely that I would get my EOI selected if the Immigration Official didn't think that my argument was a valid one? Put another way, if INZ thinks my argument is valid, and accept my EOI, surely then they only need me to prove it and that would be enough (and they wouldn't need me to validate my argument but rather just provide proof that it's the correct one)?

    The EOI isn't too expensive if we lose that money, but the visa is too much money to lose, really.

    Since, under this argument, I would have 'skilled employment' I would have over the 140 points requirement:
    30 - age
    10 - outside Auckland
    50 - degree
    60 - job for over 12 months

    What do you think my next port of call is?

  6. #6
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    As I understand it, none of the money is refundable if you're rejected,
    Correct. You pay for them to process the application, not for a particular outcome.
    and just because your EOI is chosen doesn't mean you will get Residency (as you have to then prove everything).
    Also correct.
    Is it unlikely that I would get my EOI selected if the Immigration Official didn't think that my argument was a valid one?
    Well, it doesn't usually work like that. The EOI is selected by computer, on the basis of the number of points you claim. Then clerks manually look over the EOI, to see if it looks as though, from what you've said, you had a right to claim those points. Understand, from everything I've seen from other people on the forum, they're not making any judgement on the validity of your claims at that point - they're just checking that, for instance, you haven't claimed for your qualification without its either being exempt from assessment, or having an IQA for it. If it all LOOKS okay, you'll be sent an ITA, which you have to return with all your evidence. It does SOUND as if you were being told that those people, who don't have authority to judge whether you meet the requirement, just might consult a higher authority, but it isn't what has normally happened. In most cases, no judgement has been made by an official with authority to judge whether or not someone met the requirements at the EOI stage - that didn't happen unless and until they submitted the ITA, with attendant costs.

    I would have over the 140 points requirement
    If you have what is counted as a skilled job in NZ, you only need a minimum of 100 points for your EOI to be selected at the next draw.

    I can't advise you - it's against NZ law. If you want some direction, you need to talk to an LIA. There are two who post on the forum, Karen Phillips and ChrisMwn. They wouldn't do anything they would have to charge you for without notifying you and getting your agreement first. If you send a PM, they would no doubt tell you if they think you have a reasonable hope of not wasting your money.

    Did you have a look at the idea of submitting your case as a translator?

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