Returning to NZ after many years

[aley]

Hi,
I was living in NZ in my teens till early adulthood. I studied both high school and university in Auckland. During this period I was a granted PR (indefinite). Due to personal obligation, I had to return to my home country Malaysia/Singapore. Since then I have gotten married and started a family. My spouse is also New Zealand grad and I have 2 children. Many of our favorite fond memories are during our stay in NZ.

As I'll be fulfilling my obligation soon, I'm considering moving back to NZ with my family. I would like some advise about applying PR for my family under Partner/Children category.

Extracted from the www.immigration.govt.nz
Things to note
i) If your partner’s New Zealand residence is based on their Australian citizenship, Australian permanent residence or resident return visa, you can only apply for this visa if your partner lives in New Zealand.
ii) If your partner is a New Zealand citizen and the two of you have been living together outside of New Zealand for 5 years or more, you may be eligible for a permanent resident visa. Your partner will need to be either overseas when you apply, or have been back in New Zealand for less than 3 months.

I assume I'm under case i). In this case, it requires the partner(sponsor) to be living in NZ. Uprooting and relocating is not an easy decision and task, I do not wish to put my family to undue stress and was hoping for some certainty.
Appreciate if I can solicit some advise,

• Does it imply that I have to return to NZ first before I can apply for my family? Currently we are all NOT in NZ.
• If so, should my family enter NZ as Visitor and then I apply? I read somewhere that those under Visitor Visa are not allowed to apply for residency.
• My children will be in Yr6 and Yr10, I would like to secure school placement for them in advance. Is joining High school/College in mid year common? Or when is best to do registration?
• How long will the application take?
• Employment in NZ - I'm not confident that I'll be able to secure employment immediately. As precaution, if I cannot secure employment I'm prepared to return Singapore for employment i.e. I do not wish be unemployed or be on welfare

Please advise if I looking at the wrong category altogether. My spouse scored 130pts under skill migration ... should she apply herself (with the children). That seem kinda awkward.

Lastly ... I simply cannot believe the housing/property prices in Auckland.

aley

[ChrisMwn]

Hi,
I was living in NZ in my teens till early adulthood. I studied both high school and university in Auckland. During this period I was a granted PR (indefinite). Due to personal obligation, I had to return to my home country Malaysia/Singapore. Since then I have gotten married and started a family. My spouse is also New Zealand grad and I have 2 children. Many of our favorite fond memories are during our stay in NZ.

As I'll be fulfilling my obligation soon, I'm considering moving back to NZ with my family. I would like some advise about applying PR for my family under Partner/Children category.

Extracted from the www.immigration.govt.nz
Things to note
i) If your partner’s New Zealand residence is based on their Australian citizenship, Australian permanent residence or resident return visa, you can only apply for this visa if your partner lives in New Zealand.
ii) If your partner is a New Zealand citizen and the two of you have been living together outside of New Zealand for 5 years or more, you may be eligible for a permanent resident visa. Your partner will need to be either overseas when you apply, or have been back in New Zealand for less than 3 months.

I assume I'm under case i). In this case, it requires the partner(sponsor) to be living in NZ. Uprooting and relocating is not an easy decision and task, I do not wish to put my family to undue stress and was hoping for some certainty.
Appreciate if I can solicit some advise,

• Does it imply that I have to return to NZ first before I can apply for my family? Currently we are all NOT in NZ.
• If so, should my family enter NZ as Visitor and then I apply? I read somewhere that those under Visitor Visa are not allowed to apply for residency.
• My children will be in Yr6 and Yr10, I would like to secure school placement for them in advance. Is joining High school/College in mid year common? Or when is best to do registration?
• How long will the application take?
• Employment in NZ - I'm not confident that I'll be able to secure employment immediately. As precaution, if I cannot secure employment I'm prepared to return Singapore for employment i.e. I do not wish be unemployed or be on welfare

Please advise if I looking at the wrong category altogether. My spouse scored 130pts under skill migration ... should she apply herself (with the children). That seem kinda awkward.

Lastly ... I simply cannot believe the housing/property prices in Auckland.

aley

(I) relates to Australian citizens are residents, not to you.

You can lodge a residence applications at any time for your partner and dependent children, whether you are onshore or offshore.

[JandM]

'Looking for some certainty...' I think you'll find that EVERYBODY applying for a NZ visa goes through periods of feeling insecure, whatever their situation. It's what happens to adult people accustomed to having a certain amount of control, who suddenly realize that they are dependent on the workings of a government bureaucracy, with no chance of knowing exactly what stage has been reached, let alone directing proceedings. That's the way it goes - sorry.

Does it imply that I have to return to NZ first before I can apply for my family? Currently we are all NOT in NZ.

No. See what ChrisMwn said above.

If so, should my family enter NZ as Visitor and then I apply? I read somewhere that those under Visitor Visa are not allowed to apply for residency.

That last part is wrong - there is nothing to stop visitors applying for Residence, or a different visa. There is the question of being bona fide visitors - see the INZ website for their criteria there. You might not feel comfortable saying they are all leaving again, when you don't intend to if you can help it. Your wife might say her reason is "look, see and decide", that is, about finding a job.

My children will be in Yr6 and Yr10, I would like to secure school placement for them in advance. Is joining High school/College in mid year common? Or when is best to do registration?

It's not always possible to get a school place in advance, when some schools are zoned, so would only accept the child upon seeing proof that your new home is within the zone. You could work on this by getting an idea of where you would like to live, then looking at the websites of schools in that area, and contacting them to see what their admission policies are. It is quite common for migrant children to arrive at any time in the school year. The schools are used to helping newcomers as necessary.

How long will the application take?

You have to count on a partner-sponsored Residence application taking at least six months, or often, longer. You could cut down the time by applying first to sponsor your wife for a temporary work visa, which can usually be processed in around a month, with your children as her dependents. https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-...s-visa-holders (I think this is the better alternative to getting your wife to apply for residence in her own right, the idea you mention towards the end of your post. She could not in any case get an EOI selected with 130 points unless she already had a skilled job offer in NZ.) Then you could get their Residence afterwards, with no rush.

Employment in NZ - I'm not confident that I'll be able to secure employment immediately. As precaution, if I cannot secure employment I'm prepared to return Singapore for employment i.e. I do not wish be unemployed or be on welfare

Sorry to be blunt when you are already anxious (quite naturally), but it's better to KNOW. If you were to leave NZ with your family there, before they get residence, you would break the conditions of their visas, and mess up the chance of getting residence for them - the whole point of the family stream visas is that they are allowing the dependents to join 'their' NZ citizen/PR in New Zealand.

[aley]

Thanks JandM and ChrisMwn.
Somethings are clearer now, some not so. But you sure got it right about the "insecurity", at times it feels that I'm the only one worrying about the "what ifs". Wife and kids are all just excited about going to NZ. Ironically I'm the only with the greatest emotional attachment to NZ.

Sorry to be blunt when you are already anxious (quite naturally) ...

No apology needed ... better to know and make informed decisions.

That last part is wrong - there is nothing to stop visitors applying for Residence, or a different visa. There is the question of being bona fide visitors - see the INZ website for their criteria there. You might not feel comfortable saying they are all leaving again, when you don't intend to if you can help it. Your wife might say her reason is "look, see and decide", that is, about finding a job.

Still confused about this part, especially after reading the "Bona fide visitors".

Let's say I can apply the PR for my family from offshore (while we are all offshore).
Let's say the application takes 6mths.
Let's say the application is approved after 6mths ... or longer.
What's happens next?

Must we have to enter NZ within a period?
Upon entry are we not allowed to travel in/out of NZ?

Maybe it's just my circumstances (or too hopeful), that it's more likely that I'd complete the migration in stages within the year. i.e.
- relocate wife and children first. Minimise impact to children's education.
- settle the legalities at home country e.g. selling home/car etc at the right time
- finding a job first before giving up current career. It's a career build over 20yrs, I do not mind downgrading or taking up a new challenge/different career ... but I do wish to be unemployment.

I'm being wishful I suppose. Reading the forum, they are so many bad experience about not able to find employment. I can't stop thinking about the risk of leaving for NZ w/o securing employment. Sigh!

[JandM]

Still confused about this part, especially after reading the "Bona fide visitors".

As you have seen, there are recognized good reasons (recognized by INZ, that is) for going to NZ as a visitor. A visitor's visa is not meant to cover as many situations as some people would like it to - usually, an ordinary visitor, such as a holidaymaker, is going to stay in NZ for a certain time, but they have a job, or a family, or a house, in another country, and at the end of their visit, they're expected to leave. However, there is a recognized accepted reason for being a visitor, called 'look, see and decide', when a person is allowed into NZ to look around and check out potential work opportunities and areas where they might live, so they can then decide if they want to live in NZ. Someone on that sort of visitor basis will not cause any surprise if they then send in an application for a work visa from within in NZ, if they have meantime been offered skilled work.

That was ONE possibility, but not the one you would be most likely to choose.

But your wife wouldn't need to do all that if - another possibility - she puts in an application as 'partner of a NZ resident', the temporary work visa I linked to above. She could also get temporary visas for the children (dependent children) - see the link on the same web page. This would all take weeks, rather than months. This may be welcome, if you WANT to get to NZ sooner.

If you don't, then - third possibility - apply for the partner residence instead.

Let's say I can apply the PR for my family from offshore (while we are all offshore).
Let's say the application takes 6mths.
Let's say the application is approved after 6mths ... or longer.
What's happens next?

Must we have to enter NZ within a period?
Upon entry are we not allowed to travel in/out of NZ?

When the family's visas are put in their passports, they need to use them to enter NZ within a year of the date on the label. That activates the visa. (YOU don't have any restrictions on your travel in and out, as long as you have your home in NZ, and any absences are just visits. My other warning to you was that you mustn't have your home in another country while the family are living in NZ.)

When your wife and children arrive in NZ and show their passports at Immigration, the information goes into the INZ computer that their Residence is now activated. This also starts the clock running on the two years' travel conditions which come with the Residence visa.

While someone is in NZ, the Residence visa, which gives them the right to live and work in New Zealand, can last for ever. The travel conditions give them the right to leave the country and re-enter at will, as many times as they wish, for two years, but after that time, when the travel conditions have run out, if they travelled outside NZ, their Residence visa would lapse because they would have no right to re-enter. HOWEVER, any time from two years after activation of your wife's Residence visa, she can apply for Permanent Residence if she meets the requirements http://www.immigration.govt.nz/migra...quirements.htm, and, being the principle applicant, she meets the conditions on behalf of the children as well, then they can come and go whenever they want.

I think, reading the last part of your post, you understand for yourself that you're unlikely to be able to do everything tidily in just the order you would like, because so much depends on INZ, selling up, etc, and you don't have control over the other people who are necessarily involved.

Some thoughts.

If your wife applies for partner-sponsored Residence https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-...-resident-visa, with the children on her application, while that is being processed, you could do some serious job-hunting, maybe by taking a recce trip to NZ to meet employers or agents you have previously contacted. It's not certain that you would find an offer, but it's something that has worked for many people. If you get lucky, you could also check out the district to see if you can pick out an area where you would like to live, then, either on the spot or after you go back home, you could contact the schools to start to try to arrange the necessary for your children.

That way, you would be using the processing time to sort out some of the other issues you are going to have to deal with. Things will get muddled, or not exactly work out, but at least you would be doing SOMETHING other than sitting being anxious.

[aley]

Some thoughts.
If your wife applies for partner-sponsored Residence https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-...-resident-visa, with the children on her application, while that is being processed, you could do some serious job-hunting, maybe by taking a recce trip to NZ to meet employers or agents you have previously contacted. It's not certain that you would find an offer, but it's something that has worked for many people. If you get lucky, you could also check out the district to see if you can pick out an area where you would like to live, then, either on the spot or after you go back home, you could contact the schools to start to try to arrange the necessary for your children.

That way, you would be using the processing time to sort out some of the other issues you are going to have to deal with. Things will get muddled, or not exactly work out, but at least you would be doing SOMETHING other than sitting being anxious.

I arrived at the similar thought. That I would put in the application first, plan a trip to recce Auckland suburbs and schools ... and job agents/friends. And then have something more tangible to think/plan.

Some questions ...
1) About the application (don't be upset I have to be sure), earlier it was mentioned that I do not need to be in NZ to make the application. I read and reread the link for partner - resident visa. If the first bullet is not referring to my status (i.e. PR Visa, Indefinite) ... but the second bullet only reference NZ Citizen. So can I can definitely make an application Partner - resident visa from abroad?

Things to note
* If your partner’s New Zealand residence is based on their Australian citizenship, Australian permanent residence or resident return visa, you can only apply for this visa if your partner lives in New Zealand.
* If your partner is a New Zealand citizen and the two of you have been living together outside of New Zealand for 5 years or more, you may be eligible for a permanent resident visa. Your partner will need to be either overseas when you apply, or have been back in New Zealand for less than 3 months.

2) It was mentioned

... with the children on her application,

, is there any difference to apply Children - resident visa separately? Maybe it is just obvious that Partner + children (esp <18yrs old) would be simpler for approval ... maybe even cheaper? i.e. 1 application. But I had to ask to be sure there is no cons applying together.

Thanks in advance.

[JandM]

Your wife is the one who will be applying for Residence from abroad (and you, the NZ resident, will be sponsoring her), and she's fully entitled to do so, with the children on the same application.

You're looking at the header of the page which gives a very brief and potentially misleading summary of the criteria. If you open up the bottom part of the page, you can see the full details of requirements, and click on the 'Evidence' boxes at the side. https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-...BR&applying=co

[aley]

You're looking at the header of the page which gives a very brief and potentially misleading summary of the criteria. If you open up the bottom part of the page, you can see the full details of requirements, and click on the 'Evidence' boxes at the side. https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-...BR&applying=co

I looked at the Evidence part, again it seem there is no mentioning that a Permanent Resident Visa holder sponsoring the Partner need to be in NZ or not. The part on "Your Partner's place of residence" refers to Aust cases only. Or does the first header "Your Partner must be a New Zealand citizen or resident" ... does the resident here means someone who lives in NZ perhaps?
Residence Visa.JPG

Another source - (INZ1003) Self Assess Guide for Residence in NZ. This passage first states the need to show NZ as the primary place of residence (I'm living in NZ). The subsequent passage then reference only NZ/Aust citizens and Aust PR/RRV. Am I not qualified to sponsor?
Self Assess guide.JPG

Anyway I would really appreciate if someone can further clarify (if even possible). Maybe I'm confusing my own self with the semantics and jargons.
Regardless, I think I'm getting close to give it a go ... and find out.

Many thanks esp to JandM (who has been so patient with questions and clarification ... and reclarifications).

Recapping my situation,
I have been away from NZ for many years ie. >10yrs. I have the Permanent Resident Visa (indefinite), but my family DO NOT.
We are considering relocating to NZ. My wife plans to apply under the Partnership category (incl 2 children) - Resident Visa with me as sponsor.

So far, it has been suggested that the application can be done offshore even while I'm outside of NZ (sponsor does not need to be in NZ). Application takes min 6mths.
Upon approval, we will need to take residence in NZ within 12mths (Visa valid for 2yrs upon first entry). A separate caution about leaving NZ (apart from making short trip), there is risk affecting the conditions of the partner's Visa grant. And reading elsewhere, after 2yrs if fulfilled some of the conditions, my family can apply for Permanent Resident Visa (Indefinite).

[JandM]

Look, it's not a SUGGESTION that this can be done. You've been TOLD it can, by an experienced and respected LIA (ChrisMwn). I'm getting the feeling that all these words are just your nerves, holding you balanced on the edge of starting the process.

I'm not unsympathetic to this feeling. I remember twice in the past, standing literally shaking, watching my own hand advancing to the slot of a letter box, thinking, 'Should I? Shouldn't I?' about posting mail whose outcome mattered a lot to me. In each case, I DID post it. One got me accepted for a course and qualification that opened the door to a career change and whole new experiences, and the other led to my having a string of published work (and when I got the news of that first 'yes', I was so excited that I forgot where I was supposed to be driving to ). So you are not the only person who ever got the jitters. My way of facing them down is summed up by, 'Feel the fear, and do it ANYWAY.' INZ are not going to shoot you. What's the worst that can happen? It would be a polite reply telling you you needed to do something slightly differently. And the prospect of THAT is not worth all this angst.

[aley]

Thanks JandM. Appreciate the assertiveness on the issue (and the patience to reply).
What's left is making that decision and doing it!!!