Partnership visa decline

[tina1803]

hello everyone just need suggestions on my case.
me and my partner applied for patnershipvisa in 19 jan 2018.i am newzealand citizen and my partner was on work visa. we been dating each other since june 2016 we were working at the same place so thats how story started.we opened joint account in feb 2017 and started living together from sept.we provided all the documents.
.photos together
.chat history(viber,snapchat,normal txts)
.joint insurance.
.joint account history
.same address mails
.loan that i took out for us.
.rent going from same account from sept
.gifts evidences
.trip photos
.friends letters
so we got two PPI letters and we responded to that via our advisor aswell.
we had one personal interview in hamilton.
in first PPI letter they asked proof for everything that where did my partner use the loan money.
signed affidavits from both of our parents.
because they said that it appears to against our culture as cohabitation is not permitted before marriage.
other thing they said we had joint account since feb 2017 but our pays started to be recieved in the account from 24 sep and rent started going from oct.(thats because we started living together in sep and once we moved in together we made our salaries comes in same acc which made us easy to pay bills) but they thought we did this for immigration purpose.we replied to our case officer then.
after that he called us for interview in may(first PPI we got on 15 march)
after interview he got few discrepancies.
-you were questioned on what younhad for dinner for the previous night your answer was 'roti and daal(lentil).when the same question was asked to your partner she stated that you had curry and roti(thats because for me is every indian thing is curry and it was yellow).
-when your partner was questioned if it was ok to live with someone without being married,your partner paused for while and said "yes"(thats because i was thinking in the pervious letter se provided everything even our parents gave affidavits that they dont have any problem with culture).
-your partner attends church every sunday therefore she was asked if the church was aware of her living with you.her response was "no".she further stated that the church knows she is in relationship but they don't need to know details.she also confirmed that she has never taken you to the church and no one from church knows about you.( thats because in our first chronology letter we explained everything that we work in the same place as a manager so we can't have same day off and every sunday he works in the morning. we again replied to him that he always at work on sunday and i dont go to church for gossip or telling people what i am going through,our friends, family, work mates everyone knows.i got two jobs so people at other work they also know.
-further more , your partner did not know what your religion was. she stated that she does not remeber and said that you do not follow anything. we asked your partner if you were involved in any religious activity to which her response was "he occasionally prays".we asked her to clarify occasionally and she stated "every day"( i was so nervous that time because they were keep asking me about religion and family).this appears to be limited knowledge of each other's religion and we not satisfied that you both are living as your partner does not know your religion.
we replied to him that i dont remeber what his religion is because in the beginning of our relationship i ask him what he follows so he said he follows and respect everyculture and he don't believe in religions but he is from hindu family, but his sir name is different from others and he friends with all muslims,sikhs,christans, hindu.beacuse of this confusion i didnt want to gave any wrong answer because i was confused between religion and casts.
all other answers were right that when he prays and what time he prays,he only started parying since he was not allowed to go work.so whole time he does nothing just thinking all the time,because this whole process took 5 months.
- we have noted that a signed affidavit has been provided from your partner's mother however there was none provided from her father.(my parents are seprated i used to live with my mum so i just provided her).
-from interview we also found out that you never meet your partner's family.your partner also confirmed that you only go out as a couple sometimes.she does not post anything on facebook however she had changed her relationship status( thats because he dont use facebook at all and also use barely,we mostly use snapchat).

after all this we got our decline letter on 14 june
your partner was nervous and uncomfortable when responding to answers relating to her church and public recognition.for our answer regarding church he said people normally build a close relationship with church members therefore if a conversation has been made with other to discuss your relationship status, in most cases people would know of who the partner is.
furthermore, your partner has stated that she got confused between caste and religion when asked about your religion.your partner was clearly asked of what your religion was and she answered that she does not know however she did answer that she follows christianity.therefore we do not consider her being confused regarding the terms to be credible.
she has confirmed that you pray everyday therefore it would be expected that someone who is in a geniune relationship and living together would know what religion her partner follows due to his commitment at least.
-your partner has now stated in yhe letter provided that her siblings know about the relationship with you however in the interview,she clearly confirmed that her siblings know about you but do not know about your relationship and that your are living togther( i replied him innthe last letter and in the interview that i got 6 half brother and sisters and they dont live in newzealand, and we dont talk to each other that much).
-your partner stated that in the interview that you have only gone to her mother's house once or twice(i said fer times).you confirmed in the interview that her grandmother was aware of relationship where as your partner stated otherwise.she has know stated she had forgotten about in the interview(i was very nervous that time my mind stopped thinking it was obvious if i living with my boyfriend and i did tell her in the beginning of our relationship)
- a signed affidavit has been provided from mother however none from her father.whilst the explanation is that since her parents are divorced, there should have been no reason that your partne could not provide an affidavit from her father as she mentioned that her father knows about her relationship.
-public recognition and being committed to each other both emotionally and exclusively are key elements of a relationship being geniune and stable.at this stage we are not staisfied that these requirements have been met and with all other concerns noted above therefore we are not satisfied that you and your partner are living together in a genuine relationship.wf2 of immigration instruction have therefore not been meet.
he was on his intrim visa and with the immigration decision thats finish aswell.
our advisor saying that case officer using his own assumptions which are not immigration grounds to check someone's file so we should complaint about this.

we need some suggestion what we can do next or if someone had same experience like this.
or any good advise which can help us.

thanks
and sorry for the long eassy.

[JandM]

On the basis of the words quoted, it sounds as though your LIA is correct. https://www.immigration.govt.nz/contact/complaints

[tina1803]

thanks for your reply JandM.
do they check fairly or they just gonna take their CO officer side?(we gonna provide my dads affidavit and few people from church also writing support letter)
and what next step we can take if they decline again?
my partner dont wana go to ombudsman because they take very long time.

[JandM]

They set out very plainly what they are able to look at. See here. https://www.immigration.govt.nz/cont...aint-about-inz

Notice, they will look at your case if you feel (as your LIA does) that the immigration process and instructions were not properly followed when looking at your evidence and considering the interview. They CANNOT take new evidence - just take a fresh look at what the CO had to hand - so there is no point in sending anything more at this time. Your LIA will know about this. However, you should keep gathering evidence that you are living together so that you can show you are still both at the same address during this time, ready for any future submission.

[tina1803]

thanks again JandM
our relationship is like two years old now and we been living together from sep 2017 so till now 10 months.
we are thinking to go back my partner's country(india) and get married there because he don't want stay here illegally.but we dont know how much time i need to stay there with him.
and what if they again says that we doing this for immigration purpose.
this is kinda furstration that we provided everything so what else we can do to prove our relationship.

[JandM]

That might be a course of action you could take in the future, if you follow your LIA's advice and complain first. I think, don't try to do several things at once.

[Gaida]

Dear tine1803,

First, I want to say I'm very sorry to hear this news. It does seem to me that the immigration officer is making his own assumptions about your case, rather than relying on immigration guidelines. I faced the same situation (although about work-related issues, rather than relationship-related). Further, they have made widespread cultural assumptions about how comfortable a person should be talking about very personal issues, such as religion. It sounds terrible. Even I know about daal vs. curry, and I've never even been to South Asia.

It also sounds "very INZ". There have been many complaints about inappropriate approaches to cultural differences, including with Maori applicants, so I just want you to know you're not alone, and there are many people who struggle with this too. :l

I have begun an Ombudsman complaint. The office said it would take them about 3 months to consider the complaint. So, depending on your timeline, it may not be too long. IPT (immigration tribunal) takes 6 months.

In my experience, INZ have not cared at all about their violations of immigration regulations -- and they even shared illegal activity with me in writing. It's also important to understand that the complaints process DOES NOT CONSIDER MERIT-BASED COMPLAINTS. Only PROCESS-based failures are considered. So, unless your decision was made based on a missed process (like, they were supposed to interview you as part of the second step but they interviewed you as part of the fifth step), you won't get any help. There is NO help for them making the wrong decision based on the evidence, being culturally inappropriate, misinterpreting instructions, or even making a decision based on incorrect facts and inaccurate info. My complaint resulted in apologies for a dozen errors made on my application -- and that's it. Also note that the complaints process allows 5 weeks for a response.

From my and all my friends' experiences, living together for 12 months is KEY. I have friends who are white, Christian and from Anglo countries who were married and couldn't get a partnership visa because they hadn't lived together for 12 months (because their religion prohibits living together before marriage.) He came over on a student visa; she had to get a Silver Fern visa.

Here are some thoughts:
1) Get a letter from the father if at all possible.
2) Is a tourist visa a possibility for your partner to stay? If so, you can apply for a tourist visa (3-6 months) with the explicit purpose of visiting someone in New Zealand. This will allow the extra time you need to live together and prove 12 months. This may be the easiest way to solve your problem.
3) Write to CO directly and say you feel the information was interpreted without considering the culture and your approach to religion. Ask for the CO to reconsider. When the CO declines (which is the most likely scenario), you can move up the chain in INZ if you wish and initiate a complaint. I wouldn't count on any help via this route, but you may have to do it anyhow.
4) Initiate Ombudsman complaint. The more the legal system is aware of these issues, the more there may be a larger inquiry into what is happening. An inquiry was initiated in 2008/2009 because of "target based" immigration policies (going for immigration numbers rather than evaluating individual applications) and clearly that has happened again. Both political parties talk about immigration policies in terms of numbers.

This isn't about you -- it's about reducing immigration. Note that INZ will only talk to you via Complaints if you are not talking to anyone else (Ombudsman, IPT). And you have to choose between Ombudsman and IPT -- you can't do both. But, if you start Ombudsman complaint, it will take a few weeks before they look at your case. In that time, you can communicate with CO / INZ. Once Ombudsman starts to consider your complaint, you can decide how to move forward with either INZ or Ombudsman (because you'll have to choose).

And, maybe you will have a tourist visa -- in which case your problems could be solved. Pick the easiest route for resolution, even if you are "right" that your application was inappropriately decided. In the end, it's your relationship that matters.

Good luck
...Gaida

[ChrisMwn]

Dear tine1803,

First, I want to say I'm very sorry to hear this news. It does seem to me that the immigration officer is making his own assumptions about your case, rather than relying on immigration guidelines. I faced the same situation (although about work-related issues, rather than relationship-related). Further, they have made widespread cultural assumptions about how comfortable a person should be talking about very personal issues, such as religion. It sounds terrible. Even I know about daal vs. curry, and I've never even been to South Asia.

It also sounds "very INZ". There have been many complaints about inappropriate approaches to cultural differences, including with Maori applicants, so I just want you to know you're not alone, and there are many people who struggle with this too. :l

I have begun an Ombudsman complaint. The office said it would take them about 3 months to consider the complaint. So, depending on your timeline, it may not be too long. IPT (immigration tribunal) takes 6 months.

In my experience, INZ have not cared at all about their violations of immigration regulations -- and they even shared illegal activity with me in writing. It's also important to understand that the complaints process DOES NOT CONSIDER MERIT-BASED COMPLAINTS. Only PROCESS-based failures are considered. So, unless your decision was made based on a missed process (like, they were supposed to interview you as part of the second step but they interviewed you as part of the fifth step), you won't get any help. There is NO help for them making the wrong decision based on the evidence, being culturally inappropriate, misinterpreting instructions, or even making a decision based on incorrect facts and inaccurate info. My complaint resulted in apologies for a dozen errors made on my application -- and that's it. Also note that the complaints process allows 5 weeks for a response.

From my and all my friends' experiences, living together for 12 months is KEY. I have friends who are white, Christian and from Anglo countries who were married and couldn't get a partnership visa because they hadn't lived together for 12 months (because their religion prohibits living together before marriage.) He came over on a student visa; she had to get a Silver Fern visa.

Here are some thoughts:
1) Get a letter from the father if at all possible.
2) Is a tourist visa a possibility for your partner to stay? If so, you can apply for a tourist visa (3-6 months) with the explicit purpose of visiting someone in New Zealand. This will allow the extra time you need to live together and prove 12 months. This may be the easiest way to solve your problem.
3) Write to CO directly and say you feel the information was interpreted without considering the culture and your approach to religion. Ask for the CO to reconsider. When the CO declines (which is the most likely scenario), you can move up the chain in INZ if you wish and initiate a complaint. I wouldn't count on any help via this route, but you may have to do it anyhow.
4) Initiate Ombudsman complaint. The more the legal system is aware of these issues, the more there may be a larger inquiry into what is happening. An inquiry was initiated in 2008/2009 because of "target based" immigration policies (going for immigration numbers rather than evaluating individual applications) and clearly that has happened again. Both political parties talk about immigration policies in terms of numbers.

This isn't about you -- it's about reducing immigration. Note that INZ will only talk to you via Complaints if you are not talking to anyone else (Ombudsman, IPT). And you have to choose between Ombudsman and IPT -- you can't do both. But, if you start Ombudsman complaint, it will take a few weeks before they look at your case. In that time, you can communicate with CO / INZ. Once Ombudsman starts to consider your complaint, you can decide how to move forward with either INZ or Ombudsman (because you'll have to choose).

And, maybe you will have a tourist visa -- in which case your problems could be solved. Pick the easiest route for resolution, even if you are "right" that your application was inappropriately decided. In the end, it's your relationship that matters.

Good luck
...Gaida

I don't normally agree with Gaida, but in this case the Ombudsman complaint may by the route to follow. INZ in their own complaints process can only deal with "process" and IPT looks as to wther any (residence) decision is correct in terms of residence policy.

The Ombudsman can deal with broader issues where you feel you have been treated unfairly by a Government department,and/or race issues.

You should discuss with your adviser. INZ wont take any action while a complaint is before the Ombudsman.

[tina1803]

thanks gaida and chrisMwn.
we got affidavit from my dad and we submmiting our complaint to operational manager.
for ombudsman complaint our only concern is they also gonna take time and my partner don't want stay here illegaly as it may affect on our future submission.this is our 11 month of living together.
all other visas options gonna be on section 61,and if we apply for tourist visa are they not gonna ask that my partner living here from 6 years.
our advisior suggesting to go back india and get married and stay there for 2,3 months, but that also a problem for us that i have two jobs here.
we were also thinking that what if we complete 12 months living together time and then he apply for patnership work visa offshore.
for the bona fide applicant he can say that he was there to make complaint and after that he return back.

Thanks

[tina1803]

so will just wait for complaint result first?(JandM)