Navigating job/visa Catch-22 (/should I work with an adviser)?

[iamnz]

Hi all,

My partner and I are hoping to move to Christchurch with a target arrival date of Oct 1 2023. I'm looking for your thoughts on any or all of a slew of questions!

A bit of background: I'm a 25 year-old mechanical engineer with a master's degree. I've been working my first full-time job for a few months and was previously a (paid) research assistant at my university and have had 4 internships. I specify all that since that's relatively little/odd work experience. My partner visited/lived in Christchurch for 4 month a few years ago and has a good handful of contacts in the area and NZ in general. She has a standing offer to work in a tattoo shop (so self-employed, not employee, though there is that option but far less attractive; please comment on this if you think it may be useful to our immigration case).

My main concern is the no job, no visa/no visa, no job catch-22.

1. What do you all advise is the best way to navigate that dilemma? Go at it myself, go on a different kind of visa and try to land a job once there, or work with an immigration adviser who can help me land a job at the same time? Money is definitely a consideration so the latter option is the least attractive.

2. How common is it for employers to be accredited? Is it possible to look up whether a given employer is? Or should I just go for any job I can get and apply for the SMC visa rather than the Straight to Resident visa?

3. How common is it for employers to offer relocation assistance (monetary or logistical), and what might that be like?

4. Job search guidance: TradeMe, Seek, are LinkedIn or Indeed commonly used? Should I try to work angles in industries that I'm specialized in, or would I fare no better there from the catch-22 standpoint?

Thank you for taking the time to lend a hand and helping me understand my options better! Hope to be there soon.

[JandM]

Warning! There's a LOT to get your head round in this answer. You're in a complicated situation, and there aren't easy answers. But things are possible, taken one thoughtful step at a time.

It seems to me that the best thing to recommend you to do first, is to look at the various links off this page. https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-zealand-visas That should give you a clearer idea of the criteria for various kinds of visa, and how you might be able to present your own circumstances so as to fit them. If you want more detail on any of the visas, you can use the INZ operational manual https://www.immigration.govt.nz/opsmanual/#35439.htm which sets out the regulations that the INZ workers follow. Your partner should look at the specific visa requirements for self-employment, which wouldn't be likely to help you - on the other hand, if you were to land a work visa, she would be able to apply for a partner-sponsored visa which would allow her to work self-employed (among various other options).

1. In all the years I've been watching the workings of INZ, and people's stories on this forum, I only remember ONCE hearing of someone who was found a job by an agent who also advised on the immigration process. More often, anyone advertising this 'service' seems to be after people's money, and doesn't in reality have any pull with organizations within NZ to help a migrant into work. LIAs don't have any special clout with INZ to get their clients' cases any priority, either, not even the respectable ones - they just have familiarity with the forms and how to express clearly the kind of information COs need to see to tick off requirements. But that isn't anything you can't do for yourself.

2. Scroll down here, and you'll find PDFs you can access with a list of accredited employers. https://fyi.org.nz/request/21045-lis...ited-employers
Second part of your question - SMC applications are only JUST starting to be considered again after the pandemic. Beforehand, they were taking a LONG time to be processed. So anyone hoping to move in the short term will probably need to try for a work visa first, that will get them the right to be in the country, then to hope to move on to residence later.

3. Extremely unusual, unless the applicant has rare skills proved by a good reputation and work record.

4. Yes, they're widely used. And it's good to think about organizations whose main purpose isn't named as "your job", but who may have a use for your skills. (For an example, what business these days - manufacturing, retail, education, entertainment, etc., etc.. - doesn't have a use for people who work in/with computers?)

I should say, some of what follows is based on the experience of applicants before the pandemic, and before NZ closed the borders. Since then, the NZ government (and therefore, INZ, which is a government department) have been having to sort out a massive mess which arose because businesses took a huge knock due to lockdowns, loss of markets, etc., and also because people got stranded, either IN NZ when they had expected to go home, or overseas and unable to use NZ visas they'd already had approved. The government are (only just now) working on starting up old visas which had been put on hold if they will still serve the needs of NZ employers, or in some cases, replacing them with other visas with different criteria. This means that other people's experiences from a few years ago will not necessarily be helpful to your situation NOW - it's very important to check the INZ website for up-to-date information. This page https://www.immigration.govt.nz/abou...-notifications is the place to look for the very latest, in case of any intended changes to what is already posted.

For years, it has been the case that very few job applications sent from overseas work out. The trouble is that many NZ employers are mistrustful of applicants from overseas, because so many turn out to be timewasters. People apply for a job without having researched the stringent NZ immigration laws, and so without realizing the amount of time and money it will take to obtain a visa. Or they apply without having discussed the matter with their family, who are then not in agreement to such a change in their lives. In either case, the employer, who thought he had made an appointment for someone to start in the near future, would end up with nobody to do the job, and having to start all over again. Apart from this, there is a culture in NZ of liking to look someone in the eye and shake their hand as a way of sensing whether or not they will fit in to the company, quite apart from their qualifications and references.

For this reason, many NZ employers are reluctant to deal with anyone from overseas, unless and until they have come to NZ to be interviewed, and/or have started the visa application process, if they're eligible in some way without a job offer. Both scenarios demonstrate a commitment of time and money, and go some way to proving the candidate's serious intentions to making the move.

Quite a few members of the forum have managed to get job offers by making a recce trip, having contacted prospective employers or agents beforehand, telling them when they will be available for interview.

People are allowed to enter as a visa-waiver person, or to apply for a visitor's visa, with the purpose as "vacation, and look, see and decide". Look, see and decide means they're intending to look around at the job market in their particular industry, who's recruiting, what the prospects are, maybe meet HR and be interviewed, see what the living and working conditions are like in NZ, and decide if they want to press ahead and try for a job. That is all perfectly legal, as long as they don't start to work on the visitor's visa. Therefore, if you then get a job offer, you have to apply for an appropriate work visa, and both you and the employer have to be prepared to wait out the processing time before you will be able to start. However, being a visitor is the important part for INZ officials first looking at a person coming in on a visitor's visa, so it's good to have a holiday-type itinerary, and/or details of friends to catch up with, ready to talk about.

Also, it occurs to me that you and your partner might be able to use the Working Holiday Visa scheme, also to give a chance to job hunt for a permanent job in person. If your partner already had a WHV for NZ, so wouldn't be able to get another, she might be able to use the BUNAC system. https://bunac.org/working-holidays/work-new-zealand
https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-...g-holiday-visa

Good luck...

[iamnz]

JandM, huge thank you for such a useful and thorough reply!

So it sounds like a tenable strategy would be for my partner and I to both get WHV; she can do her work on hers (tattoo shop confirms this), and I can do temp work and search for a full-time job on mine. Great to hear that we should have no need for a LIA.

I've seen some engineering job postings say that they're not accepting applicants on WHV; do you expect this to be a significant issue for me? I can see two reasons why they may not want such people: 1. Waiting for WHV applicants to have permanent work visas approved (~3-4 months based on what I've most recently seen on here?) and 2. Being unsure of their commitment to stay in NZ long-term. Are there any other legal or other reasons I should be aware of that explains why some jobs don't accept WHV applicants?
One way we can demonstrate our commitment is that we will be moving our two pets with us when we arrive (US $10k about!). Having to wait for visa approval does seem like a pretty big knock against my candidacy, however.

[JandM]

I've no idea why some employers are saying they won't take people on a WHV. I can guess, maybe they've had bad experiences of people being more interested in holiday-making than in concentrating on work. Or maybe they want to take on somebody who will build a role within their company, which wouldn't be possible with only limited permitted time to stay. Their company, their rules.

However, there are people on the forum who have managed to get a job offer by going to NZ on a recce trip, having previously made arrangements to meet agencies and potential employers, and also to go cold calling to show their face and leave their CV at s many other suitable places as possible. (If you do cold-call, make a point of pressing to see someone who would be making appointments, maybe the owner or manager, or HR, so you make a personal impression - don't just leave your CV/résumé, with a receptionist.) Research what employers and agencies there are operating in your industry in NZ by using Google or any other search engine. (For instance, entering "Manufacturing Wellington NZ" brought up this lot of hits. https://www.google.co.uk/#q=manufacturing+Wellington+NZ And "recruitment agencies Wellington NZ" gave these. https://www.google.co.uk/#q=recruitm...+wellington+nz Obviously, you can do this for any career, and any NZ location.) Even if a job you saw advertised on Seek etc. has now been filled, once you get the name of the company, you can go to their own website and look for details about recruitment. You can ask for a meeting to discuss future possibilities, even if they are not currently advertising a vacancy.

You might try that technique even with the companies who are saying 'no WHV' - in person, you might be able to impress someone in authority that you're interested in the long-term, not just a quick visit.

Someone on a visitor's visa has to wait to have a work visa approved. On a WHV they can start work straight away. However, if an employer wants to hire someone for a long-term job, they can't do it on a WHV, which is specifically forbidden. So sometimes, employers with this in mind will co-operate and take on the WHV person by describing the job as being for a limited contract only, although both parties fully intend that it will be extended once they've gone through the proper formalities, as the worker will have to obtain a different kind of visa if they are going to stay on.

[allune]

1. What do you all advise is the best way to navigate that dilemma? Go at it myself, go on a different kind of visa and try to land a job once there, or work with an immigration adviser who can help me land a job at the same time? Money is definitely a consideration so the latter option is the least attractive.
There are recruitment agencies with in house LIAs, just don't know if they exist for your industry. I know agencies for healthcare, primary industries...

2. How common is it for employers to be accredited? Is it possible to look up whether a given employer is? Or should I just go for any job I can get and apply for the SMC visa rather than the Straight to Resident visa?
- Not yet as common as there are employers who are not even aware that such a system of accreditation is in place now. But they seem to get on it when they understand they need to be on it and they already have a migrant they want to offer the job to.
- List of accredited employers has been linked by JandM
- For SMC, it can't be just any job as you have to prove you have the qualification and/or the work experience that a job needs as per ANZSCO.

3. How common is it for employers to offer relocation assistance (monetary or logistical), and what might that be like?
- In case you find an employer whilst offshore, if they haven't mentioned it then include it in your negotiation... Is it absolutely a must-have for you? I mean, you might be able to find a job but they won't offer relocation despite your best efforts, will that be a deal-breaker?

4. Job search guidance: TradeMe, Seek, are LinkedIn or Indeed commonly used? Should I try to work angles in industries that I'm specialized in, or would I fare no better there from the catch-22 standpoint?
- Do you have existing contacts in NZ in your industry? That could be an in too...