Doing a bunk?

[ssnjeff]

My wife and i are hoping to move out to New Zealand in Jan/Feb 07 with our youngest children if our visa app is granted, we also have a son of 24 who is going to come out on his own PR visa later on in the year.
My main question is this, the 24 year old has some credit card debts that he says he is not going to pay due to him going to NZ, and he has been told (by one of his idiot mates) that they won't be able to get the money off him due to him being out in NZ.
We have gone down the moral issue road which had no inpact at all, then we have tried the "you have been brought up better than that" routine all to no avail. We have told him that it would effect his credit rating in the UK and possibly in NZ as well, but he says he will not be coming back to the UK so it's not a problem and it will not effect his credit in NZ.
Please,please,please could any member of this web site shed any light on this issue for us as we are worried sick that if he goes ahead with his plan he could be deported or even worse put into prison. We realy require any advise that is fact and not fiction or what people have heard from there mates sisters great aunt as this latter form is what our son is going off.

Many thank's, 2 Very worried parents.

[Avalon]

First off - im not 100% sure of my facts on this - because we actually found it quite difficult to get answers on this last year. We have a friend in a similar situation and we were trying to find out what happens.

From what I remember - the debt does stay live, and will go to debt recovery agencies, from there it goes to lawyers! . A problem can occur if you leave a UK forwarding address (for example YOUR parents). If that happens - they can start ringing them to find a forwarding address for you. If there is a forwarding address direct to NZ - then the debts could potentially follow. I would ask your son if he is prepared for YOU to be blacklisted, or worse, any grandparents he has. Maybe he will have a attack of morals at that point.

Ive checked with my friends, and they confirm that we did find out - the debts CAN follow you to New Zealand. Problem is, none of us can remember WHERE we found that out from

At the end of the day - it really is not as easy as just walking away. He may get away with it - equally he may not - and the results of that are much more expensive, both in money terms and in stress and hassle.

So, my advise is to speak to the follwoing agencies while still in the uk. All are confidential and will not cause fruther problems for you.

1/ Citizens advise. I never found them that helpful in the past - but its a good start. and they know where else to sendyou to for help and advise.

2/ http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cgi...94132767,59163,
Look here at dealing with problem debt. Includes how to ask about things anonmously - which is what you really need to do

Also, on moneysavingexpert is a forum for debt free wannabies you may find useful - lots of really good advise from people already doing it!

3/ The consumer Credit Councelling Service (0800 138 1111). I think this is the most likely place we got the infor from last year.

If he decides to do the right thing and deal with the money he spent - then again - Moneyaving expert is a fantastic place to start. There are some very simple techniques to help pay off debts quickly and with the minimum amount of pain. It does of course rely on having the will to do it, and forst off he must stop spending money he doesnt have (comes to us all at some point ).

I hope that helps a bit - let me know if you need more help.

[jubjub]

I was also going to point out that blacklisting thing for addresses you have in the UK, it will affect more people that just him, the new owners of your house for a start may have issues as your address could be blighted as far as credit agencies go.

I worked at the next desk to a Debt Collector in my old job, he had the greatest determination to get every penny owed, and had many more tools that you would think to track people down, even using private investigation where necessary. If the amount is significant enough, they will find you!

Another thing to bear in mind is that he could be charged with something like fraud, and if he obtains a criminal conviction, can be deported from NZ.

Heres a case in todays news (not debt related though, and they were a bit stupid!)

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/st...ectID=10395542

dont know if any of that helps, but its a couple more things to scare him a bit, again not got anything apart from personal experience to back this up, sorry.

[Avalon]

"You asked a friend in Britain to send some cocaine to you for your birthday. I doubt it takes me to remind you how foolish that was,"

DOH! Thats got to be worth a Darwin Award

[Diny]

OK - this post may go on abit because the story I have to tell isn't a short one. But hopefully if your son reads it, by the time he gets to the end he'll have changed his mind.

Here goes:

16 years ago (which when you consider the amazing 'technology' of today seems light years away) we lived in Darwin, Australia. We then had to relocate to Scotland with my husbands job. We had a 4WD truck which we needed to sell. We drove as far as Brisbane to spend a few days with my bro in law before flying out (to actually spend a 6 month break in NZ en route to the new contract). Our last job was to sell the truck. We had only a few days to get it sold so decided the best way was to sell it to a dealership. We easily found a car yard which was willing to buy the truck from us. The vehicle had some credit against it (being bought on HP). Not a massive amount was outstanding. Obviously as we did all the paperwork with the car dealer he was made aware of the credit and both parties signed all the necessary paperwork to transfer the credit to him - which he would pay off.

He was a friendly guy who was chatting to us about our years in Oz and how we'd find a difference in NZ and how we'd feel the cold etc etc when we arrived in Scotland. In hindsight this was where we were duped. The dealer now realised that 3 days later we'd be leaving the country with no immediate plans of returning.

We handed over the keys, and took our copies of the paperwork and left. That was that - or so we thought.

About 10 months later, after spending our 6 months here in NZ and having rented a small cottage in a very remote hamlet north of Aberdeen (and I mean remote), a letter landed on our doormat. It had an Australian postmark. When we read it we nearly had heart failure. It was from a debt collection lawyer in the Northern Territory, Australia. It informed us that due to the fact that we had 'done a runner' (not the actual legal wording) on a HP loan for a Toyota Hilux we were being sued for the outstanding amount, plus costs. It also informed us that the matter had now be handed over to a company in the UK who they used for international debt collection.

Thankfully, we still had all the paperwork. The receipts, the signed agreement stating that the dealer would pay off the HP ..... everything we needed to back up our story.

We called my bro in law who promptly visited the dealership, introduced himself (obviously has the same name as us) and the car dealer turned a whiter shade of pale, stuttered and spluttered and claimed that he's been on holiday and was a little behind in his paperwork and that the matter would be settled that very day. And indeed it was. Dirty, lowlife, sneaky ************* ....(just confirmed my opinions of 2nd hand car dealers).

Now I have absolutely no idea how they traced us. Nobody in Oz had a forwarding address for us, all 'official' business (or so we thought) had been closed before we left. We have tried to think of every possible way they could have found us, and all these years later we're still drawing blanks. I'm glad they did find us and the matter was cleared up immediately, the thought of that black mark festering for years isn't a pleasant one.

Remember, all this happened before the world shrunk to the size of a pea due to the internet and Big Brother. If they found us with great ease then, imagine what they could do now.

A credit rating is like any other kind of reputation, once you get a bad one it follows you around for life. Please let your son read this, and please forgive me if I'm stepping over the mark by telling him that he needs to grow up, get real and stop fooling himself that this little ol' place called NZ is so cut off from the rest of the world that his past won't catch up with him. Don't be a fool - of course it will.

Diny

[Moorf]

I guess it depends if he wants to spend all his time in NZ looking over his shoulder or worrying if he'll be collared if he wants a credit card or car loan or even a mortgage further down the line - some countries have reciprocal deals with debt recovery agents in other countries - I would have thought that UK/NZ would be one but I can't find that info at the moment.

Reading around a bit it seems they can use all sorts of media for tracing - passport numbers, bank accounts, neighbours, employers, yada yada.... and in this day and age even Googling can track someone down...


I did find an article that might be worth him / you reading:

http://ezinearticles.com/?UK-Debt-Wh...Abroad&id=6081

Hope he sees sense soon

Moorf

[Moorf]

@ cocaine article... what are some people ON? except coke...

[Diny]

Another couple of thoughts that spring to mind.

Credit cards, such as Visa & Mastercard etc - surely they're all 'linked' in some way - you can use them just about anywhere in the world so surely the lines of communication need to cross at some stage.

Also, when we applied for our mortgage over here we had to supply a UK credit report, not only showing whether there were any overdue/unpaid loans, but also showing whether we had any active credit cards/loans, up to date or otherwise. If your son is planning to stay here for life then I presume that one day he's going to want a mortgage.

[Moorf]

Good point re Visa/Mastercard - they have access to so much data about people it's quite astonishing - I headed up a credit card marketing team and the data we could lay their hands on for acquisition/retention activity was amazing - you'll be amazed how much info filters back to them. They could potentially cross-reference address/dates of birth/locations etc to match up to yourselves if they don't have your details already on his file (or perhaps he's used you as guarantors at some point in the past?) and they only need to check your records (bank/voters roll/etc) and perhaps see that you've paid £xx to New Zealand immigration and bingo.. they're on the trail to NZ.

I'm not saying this will happen but it's the sort of route my mind would take - but having worked with public and private dbases I know just how easy it is to i.d another person.

Hopefully that's a little more ammo for you....

[jubjub]

. They could potentially cross-reference address/dates of birth/locations etc to match up to yourselves if they don't have your details already on his file (or perhaps he's used you as guarantors at some point in the past?) and they only need to check your records (bank/voters roll/etc) and perhaps see that you've paid £xx to New Zealand immigration and bingo.. they're on the trail to NZ.

I'm not saying this will happen but it's the sort of route my mind would take - but having worked with public and private dbases I know just how easy it is to i.d another person.

Hopefully that's a little more ammo for you....

Thats EXACTLY the way our debt collectors mind worked.... he was like a highly trained sniffer dog.

Also as an aside, many Debt collectors are on commission too for every penny they get back, and money is a very strong motivator...